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Original poster

Questions to ask - viewing flat with "no planning permission" loft conversion

47 replies

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 20/07/2014 15:30

What do I need to know? What can I expect the vendor / estate agent to tell me?

I have seen a flat I adore and it has a "playroom" and master bathroom in the attic and specifies no planning permission for the conversion.

When I go to view it, what do I need to know? Assuming planning permission and building regs are different things. Is it the building regs that will show that the work is up to standard?

Is it suitable for me to ask why they didnt seek planning permission?

OP posts:

pilates · 20/07/2014 18:58

I would want a surveyor/structural engineer to inspect and make sure it is safe and structurally sound. You could come across problems if you will be obtaining a mortgage, can't think a prospective Lender would be too happy.

Original poster

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 20/07/2014 18:59

How would that work Mrs? I live in a ground floor flat, and there is a flat above me. If tbe flat above me doesntown the loft space, and its communal, how do I access it? By going through upstairs' flat?

OP posts:

Pooka · 20/07/2014 19:02

I think in these conversion flats it's actually quite common for the first floor flat to own the loft space, with responsibility over the roof, or with rights over the loft, but joint ground and first floor responsibility for roof repairs.

The house next door to us was converted into 2 flats many yeArs ago! and I know the first floor owners have always pondered having a loft extension. They said that they and the the ground floor flats share maintenance of the roof, but the deeds say that they have sole use of the loft space. I believe that if they were to have a velux put in, or dormer extension, they would have to seek the permission of the ground floor flat since it could alter the maintenance burden of the ground floor flat if you see what I mean.

noddyholder · 20/07/2014 19:13

I own the top 3 floors of a house and don't own the loft.

noddyholder · 20/07/2014 19:14

Ours isn't in the demise of the lease and although the flat below can't access it I would have to buy if from her (her rights to it) in order to convert. I looked into this and changed my mind as it was a refurb and I wasn't bothered about extra space.

Spickle · 20/07/2014 19:20

You could also take a look at planning applications here to see if planning permission was applied for (and granted)

Isitmylibrarybook · 20/07/2014 20:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ElizabethMedora · 20/07/2014 20:14

Looks nice OP. We bought a house with a loft room that hadn't been done with planning permission or building regs... I'd precede with caution. Did the current owners do the work? Get a structural engineer round to look at it.

WookieCookiee · 20/07/2014 20:17

No, the EA would not know what's on the title deeds. The EA doesn't get involved in any legal work.

They might. Worth asking - they probably won't show you the actual document but would have to disclose if they are aware that the current owner doesn't own the loft space (I used to work for an EA and we had to check the Title with the Land Registry - essentially the deeds - to check that the person selling through us matched the registered owner).

Checking the lease terms is an excellent point. As is the planning portal - which will also show if pp has been refused in the past.

Bowlersarm · 20/07/2014 20:19

Ooh nice flat OP.

But I think you should be paying the price of a property less a master bedroom and a playroom.

It's lovely.

Just don't pay more than it's worth.

SolomanDaisy · 20/07/2014 20:24

It's a 'Tyneside flat', it almost certainly has the traditional freehold split. This means the downstairs flat owns the freehold for upstairs and vice versa. So the freeholder will be aware of the work. If you check the local council website, you can see other properties on the same street have had permission, so I would wonder why they didn't just apply. I'd guess it is a long way from meeting building regulations, otherwise they could just stick a retrospective application in and have a flat worth a lot more.

Original poster

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 20/07/2014 20:31

Tbh the flat is priced imo at what it should be with planning permission. Without, it is about 15/18k too much.

I am currently in a tyneside flat and agree with pp, we own the lease of above and above owns our lease. we cover the drains and upstairs covers the roof.

OP posts:

Original poster

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 20/07/2014 20:31

Yes I am put off because I keep asking why. Why not jist do it officially?

OP posts:

PigletJohn · 20/07/2014 21:00

if there is no evidence that the plans and build met building regulations and were approved after inspections, then the conversion adds negative value to the house. Because you have to budget for the cost of ripping it all out, and then of doing it all again properly.

If you can buy an unconverted home for the same or less, buy it, and do your own conversion.

Viviennemary · 20/07/2014 21:07

I'd be very wary indeed about this one. It's a converted upper floor of a terrace house with a loft that doesn't have planning permission. Presumably the original conversion does have planning permission. And what about when you come to resell. No. Don't touch it.

Original poster

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 20/07/2014 21:08

this one is one street over

It is "officially" converted and larger, yet 12k cheaper.

OP posts:

CalamitouslyWrong · 20/07/2014 21:12

That's not a conversion. It's a Tyneside flat. They were built with an upper and lower flat. You get them all over Tyneside.

Does t help with the PP, but the upper flat probably does own the roof space.

juneybean · 20/07/2014 21:16

I think she means the loft space has been converted...

Original poster

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 20/07/2014 21:17

Yes - converted from storage space into living space.

OP posts:

hiccupgirl · 20/07/2014 21:18

You really need to see the deeds and the lease if there is one to find out who owns the loft.

We used to live in the upstairs flat of a converted 1930s house. The ground floor flat held the freehold for both flats and was responsible for everything downstairs and drains etc. We owned the loft and were responsible for the roof under our lease - we would have needed the freeholder's permission but could have converted the loft into a second floor for us.

CalamitouslyWrong · 20/07/2014 22:36

Yes, but everyone's talking as if the actual building is a terrace that has been converted into flats. It isn't. The loft space may have been converted but it was always an upper and lower flat.

Pooka · 20/07/2014 22:41

But that makes no difference to whether planning permission/building regs would be required to convert the loft space into additional accommodation.

I lived in similar purpose built flat (same period but very different location). We had shared freehold, covering roof and drains. But the first floor flat had exclusive use of the loft space.

The technical lease/freehold issues are the least of the issues though - IMO. Main issue definitely whether the conversion will be subject to potential enforcement, or will not comply with building regs to ensure that it is safe and structurally sound.

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