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Original poster

Scaffolding/right of access to our garden

39 replies

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 14:02

Hello all,

Thanks in advance for any help! Our neighbours upstairs have announced that they want to convert their loft, which will require scaffolding to be erected in my (private) garden. The work will take about 12 weeks and I'm a bit gutted to be losing the use of a part of our garden (will need to keep daughter away from quite a large of the garden while work taking place). Also, will they need to access the garden through our garden gate? What are their rights concerning access? I want to be a good neighbour, but can't help feeling we're bearing the brunt of the disruption. But... people do need to do building work etc. Anything I should be aware of?

Thank you so much!

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AlpacaLypse · 30/05/2014 14:05

IIRC there's guidelines/legislation to cover this situation, I think it may be covered by something like The Party Wall Act? I was thinking about this when mulling over the work we're going to have to get down one day on the side wall.

Try googling it. ATB

Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 14:10

Am doing that! A bit panicky about it, bit puzzled I feel like this!

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theowlwhowasafraidofthedark · 30/05/2014 14:16

Not sure about the scaffolding issue but if it makes you feel better the disruption inside their flat will be terrible! Will help them keep to their timeline though...

LaurieFairyCake · 30/05/2014 14:19

They don't have the right to put scaffolding up in your private garden - as far as I know you could refuse.

You could give them permission and also stipulate how you want it to be used - so for example no access to garden apart from to erect the scaffolding (they can go through the loft on a ladder to the scaffolding). Stipulate timescales - say it must be removed by a certain date.

Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 14:19

Ah, they won't be there! They're moving back from overseas. Have never met them. I understand why they want to do it - they need more room. Just a bit gutted it'll impact on me and want to know where I stand.

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onedev · 30/05/2014 14:20

Do you have to allow it?? Is there no other way for them to gain access? I wouldn't be happy losing my garden during the summer at all. How have they approached you about it? I'd say no personally.

Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 14:21

Thank you, Lauriefairycake. That's really good to know. Thanks again, very much appreciated!

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Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 14:23

We're semi-detached, so they could possibly access it from the alleyway that runs alongside the house. I want to be fair and reasonable, but really don't want to lose use of bit of garden - it'd be on our patio bit. Is it fair to suggest that? Thanks again!

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RosesandRugby · 30/05/2014 14:25

You should check your deeds.
Mine clearly states I must allow access to my neighbours property via my own if they need to access the outside/roof etc for repair works/maintenance (including erecting scaffolding). I cant refuse but they have to give me fair warning in writing and they must repair any damage to my property at their own expense and in a reasonable amount of time.

If you are unsure speak to a solicitor but you may have to pay for a copy of your deeds to be sent if you don't have them already.

RoxyRobin · 30/05/2014 14:29

His neighbour wanted to put scaffolding on my son's garden to build an extension earlier this year.

DS asked for a signed undertaking that they would put right any damage they caused to his property, which the firm of builders gave him. They also gave him £100 for the inconvenience.

LIZS · 30/05/2014 14:31

Will they need scaffolding for the full 12 weeks, a lot of work can be done internally and scaffolding costs £££ ? Have they already got pp ?

Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 14:40

Will check deeds. No planning permission yet. Thanks again.

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Onesleeptillwembley · 30/05/2014 14:41

Frankly, being told as opposed to being asked wouldn't make me more inclined to help. Also, it's not repair or maintenance, so they can't use that. I'd say no in your situation. And I've let my previous neighbour use my garden previously.

GotAnotherQuestion · 30/05/2014 14:47

I wonder if it might be worth getting them to consider bridge scaffolding on that one side?

The reason I mention it is that I have to repair a roof on a detached house and the neighbour had erected an illegal porch resting against my property wall, which makes access to the side impossible without removing the roof.

He's made it clear I'd have to take him to court so I've just paid the extra for the bridging scaffolding because my life is already too stressful and I would really rather not have the headache!

Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 14:48

In fact, no mention of planning permission at all - and nothing on the planning website. But they have mentioned having consulted builders and timescale they've given us gives no time for planning permission to be granted (I'm assuming that would take a couple of weeks?). Do you need planning permission for a loft conversion? Thanks again.

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Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 14:50

Onesleeptillwembley, I've read the email again and it made me quite cross! There's an assumption that that's what they're going to do...

Thanks for the support. Really don't want things to get difficult and legalistic. I know they haven't been easy about things in the building in the past.

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Viviennemary · 30/05/2014 14:56

I'd be inclined to ask them to find an alternative. They say 12 weeks . If it runs over and they're abroad Iwonder how easy it would be to make them stick to the timeline. It's too long and too much imposition on you. I'd get in touch with the planning department at your local council. I think velux windows in the loft don't need planning permission but dormers and other structures do. Sounds like they are totally out of order.

BristolRover · 30/05/2014 14:59

if they are upstairs neighbours then presumably you have a lease? who is the landlord? your lease will have all information about rights of access over each other's land / common parts and what you have to do. Quite often it will require you to give access for repairs but not necessarily for construction work.

If it is a leasehold property and you own a share of the freehold, then you should be charging them to convert the roof... check the lease / deeds to see who owns the roof space and roof - who is responsible for repairing it - you may need to vary the lease to make sure that your'e no longer responsible for any part of the costs of repairing the roof if they convert it. Is potentially quite complicated and they should be paying your reasonable professional fees to cover any arrangements/ amendments required.
as to PP - quite possible that under the new permitted development guidelines, they don't need it - but they may still need it from the freeholder and that might include you.

Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 15:00

I think they'll be back in country at time works start. But, like you say, if the work over-runs, what do we do re scaffolding, aside from start legal steps, which is ££. I'll talk to planning.

Popping out for 15 mins to get daughter's tea. Back shortly.

Thanks for help and support.

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LIZS · 30/05/2014 15:07

even if no pp required it would be subject to buildings control such as to reinforce the floor, fire retardancy and regulations, access....

RockCrushesLizard · 30/05/2014 15:11

I don't know much about whether they have to allow scaffolding, but we had our loft done last year, so I know:

You don't need planning permission as long as it's within a certain size - it's called permitted development, and got us two rooms and a shower room from the loft, so quite big.

They don't have to put scaffolding next door - imagine you were in a terrace, they'd have no choice but to go up and over with the scaffold. So the works can be done without.

Our neighbours were very accommodating, and agreed to a row of scaffolding over their path, (perhaps it helped that we asked, rather than told them!) but the builders made the first horizontal bars quite high, so they could still walk under.
The builders gave them £100 m&s vouchers, as a thank you for making it easier for them, and we gave wine and flowers as a thank you for making it easy for us.

In your circumstances, I'd be telling them to sling their hook. You would be doing them a favour, they need to be nice about it.

LaurieFairyCake · 30/05/2014 15:35

I would only allow them to put scaffolding up in the alleyway - there is no way I'd lose my garden for the summer

If there was no way for them to use the alleyway then I might have negotiated

Original poster

happygonicky · 30/05/2014 15:53

Thanks again for all replies. She's got kedgeree for tea!

The problem with the alleyway is that our kitchen window overlooks it, so builders would be walking past all day. Would almost prefer that to losing bit of the garden though. I don't know. It seems that we don't HAVE to let them do this, which is reassuring. I think. I don't want it to get difficult, and I think it might given how they were on something house-related in the past. I don't see why they'd ask for permission to use garden if they could do it without, maybe they're going for the easy option. Good to know others have had work done without scaffolding being used in quite this way -as Rockcrusheslizard said.

Re the freehold. They bought permission to do this work from the previous owners of our flat (and the others in the building). So I suppose we were vaguely aware they had permission for loft conversion, but they've been away for four years - and didn't realise they would want to use our garden.

Thanks, everyone. I've stopped shaking.

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MrsJohnDeere · 30/05/2014 15:54

I'd speak to the planning people at your local council who will be able to advise what your rights and obligations are, as a first step.

If you do agree, how about saying that it can't start until Sept so that you don't lose the use of the garden in the summer holidays.

I think it is quite common to out a time frame on it too, and then have penalty payments if they go over this time.

Littlefish · 30/05/2014 15:58

I agree with MrsJohnDeere about giving permission, but not until mid September. I think it's unreasonable for them to expect you to do without part of your garden through the whole summer.

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