MIL coming to live with us (granny annex) advice re ground rules, sibling inheritance etc

[deepest]

We want to think ahead and decide what the ground rules/living arrangements are so that we dont all drive each other nuts and nothing gets personal. MIL is not in great health and a bit needy - I am worried that I will be on call 24/7.....has anyone done this or know any family who have done it well -- happy to hear the horror stories. Also wrt finance the plan was that she sells her house, builds an annex on ours and what is left when she dies is split between the 3 siblings - does thats seem fair? Other two siblings live far away so will be no practical help on a day to day basis.

What happens to your house when she dies? If that increases in value because of the annexe I think that might complicate any inheritance issues unless all made very clear beforehand

Her gift of the cash for an annex....if she dies within 7 years you are likely to have to pay 40% inheritance tax on that gift if her estate is over the IHT limits. Might be a good idea to speak to a solicitor.

PS... also if she lives in what she's given to you without paying a market rent then even if she survives 7 years I think the 40% IHT is payable again if she is over the limit... rules called reservation of benefit.

Good tip -- hadnt thought about IHT - will see a solicitor asap and also to be clear that we had our share for the annex ahead.

The cash gift to your DH is conditional. He will be expected to extend his (jointly owned) house with the money. His siblings will have no such condition imposed on their inheritance.

So, not only do they not have to do all the elderly care, they also get to choose wht they spend their inheritance on. This needs to be considered.

If she needs care home the money she's given you may also be taken into account or be considered a "depravation of assets". Definitely see a solicitor and get it all sorted properly, re IHT too. It's VERY complicated. Are her other children aware and ok with what you are all doing? People get really funny when money is concerned and they think they may be being short changed.

That aside, you need to be very clear about ground rules and what care you will/won't provide for her. e.g. will you be cooking for her if she needs it, will this be in your home or will you take it into her? Will you clean/ shop/ manage her money (if you are doing this then get Power of Attorney). If she becomes more unwell will you help her get washed and dressed? Does she expect you to do this or will she be willing to have carers come in. You really do need to get this sorted out before any money is exchanged or building started or I could end up being horrible for all of you.
Who's idea was this initially?

My grandmother (my mother's MIL) lived in a granny annex that was part of my parents' house. It did work well for them, but they were very close, and my grandmother was very independent. She had no wish to be looked after, but she had lived a long way from any of her children, and I think she considered it unfair to continue to do so, in case she became unwell, or something happened to her.

So, a positive experience for them.

Good point Sanity - as there is also the real possibility that the money sunk inot the annex and adapted bathrooms etc - will not add value and the property market could falls over time -- I would think that this chunk (30k) could be written off/ignored if DH is taking on the sole care - and that the pot of cash left (ie MIL house sale-annex cost) is split 3 ways on death - as we do not know what care

littleblackno - great points we need to have that conversation. It was our idea - as we can see her health failing rapidly - and it is important to plan ahead rather try to manage situations in a last minute crisis.

I can understand you wanting to plan. I know I probably sound really negative and I think it can work well for lots of people, I've just been involved so many times when people hit the crisis as they are no longer able to continue to care for their relative after they have done what you are planning.
I think people underestimate what caring for an elderly relative may involve, if she is really very unwell. If she did need 24 hour care then that is exactly it - 24 hours, and regardless of the planning or conversations you have you could end up being on call 24/7 if that is what she needs.
Is there any way of looking at ways to adapt her current home, get support in for her there rather than her moving? AgeUK have a pretty good website and in many areas have people who can come out to speak to you to advise you. You say her health is declining now, could her health conditions give you any idea what she may be like in 5-10 years? Worst case scenario?

Sorry I know I really sound negative, but I do think you have to be realistic about what you will/won't do so that there are no surprises or accusations. You need to have the uncomfortable conversations now before she moves in.

If you know any carers or have a carer's support group nearby you could talk to them about their experiences. Similarly there are online forums eg
The Alzheimer's society.

I agree with previous posters about carefully considering whether the annex is something that you want, e.g. if she later moved out.

I'd aim to provide occasional care with her living independently. You could consider sheltered housing or another type of similar accommodation. The advantages would be that she'd have a built-in support network and social life, live with similarly-aged people (no student parties) and someone would manage the building's maintenance. You could get recommendations for home helps or other services through her neighbours. There'd be a warden service. If her care needs increase then you'd know others are keeping an eye on things, not just you.

Having her live with you brings lots of uncertainty unless it's for a defined short-term period. Things like you bring ill or having an accident or wanting a holiday are things to think about now. In years to come you could find that you're being called upon continuously and can't eat dinner or watch a tv programme without being interrupted, and it's harder to use outside carers because you're "just through the wall". And you stop making plans to do anything because so often they're canceled at the 11th hour.

Also it's a path that once you've started down it, it's harder to back out. But if you do, I'd suggest having boundaries that you discuss now e.g. if x/y/z happen then the arrangement is stopped and she had to move elsewhere. If you find it difficult to have these discussions now, you'll likely find it much harder when she's living with you, vulnerable and needy but you're floored with the caring role.

Also I think if the extension includes a second kitchen then for council tax purposes you can be assessed as being two properties. Hopefully your local council tax office could explain the rules.

Council tax stuff- this article ifs from Dec 2013
www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2525492/Granny-flat-perk-leave-600-bill.html

Here are the official rules for England & Wales
www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/Publications/selfContainedUnits.html

Wow Kirako a minefield wrt council tax and annexes but again well pointed out that we need to have the upfront difficult decisions about what is in and what is out of the arranagement now in the shortterm - whilst she has limited mobility and housebound -- and what happens if things deteriorate - total immobility, dementia, stroke etc.

My mothers family looked after my double amputee grandmother with dementia for 15 years until recently - so I know what is involved (from a distance...)

You are very-very good to consider this. My MIL has been looking after her elderly parents for more than 10 years and she bitterly regrets having gone this path now and she loves her parents dearly. However, she has been a virtual full time carerer unable to work or go away on holiday without making arrangements.
On the other hand, my elderly grandfather lived with my mother and her siblings (part of the year in different houses) and it was wonderful. My mom and her brothers used to fight to see who would get him and for how long each year. The big difference was that my grandfather was in relatively good health (for an 80-90 year old). He could wash himself, use the bathroom, make small meals and go for walks. The main work for my family was cooking dinner (which was just a case of making more of what they were cooking anyway) and arranging doctors appointments and medication. My mom and her brothers all continued to work full time.
If an elderly relative needs real care, unless that type of work is in your nature, it is very difficult for it not to become a burden. A nearby facility where you can visit often (even daily) might be a better for your relationship.

My Mil has her Mil live with them for decades and it worked well The granny provided childcare to begin with (looking after the kids after school) so it wasn't a one way thing. They were quite clear about boundaries. In the same house but separate living rooms (more important than separate kitchens and less odd when it comes to it being just a single family home) sink in her room. When she was frail carers came in and eventually she moved to a nursing home. Some difficult discussions with siblings about money (which I don't know the ins and outs off).