Really bad survey - how to proceed?

[SchnitzelVonKrumm]

Had a building survey done yesterday and it's pretty devastating. We had allowed 100,000 pounds to extend and refurbish an Edwardian house but the surveyor says it could be twice that - needs a whole new roof immediately, has wet and probably dry rot, chimneys need to come down, there is asbestos to be removed, some brickwork needs tying in, extensive damp, some floors and ceilings will have to be replaced, all the plaster has to come off, needs complete rewire and replumbing... The lot, basically.
We are still prepared to consider buying - hardly anything comes on the market round here - but how should we go about negotiating a reduction the price?

How does the valuation in the survey compare to the price agreed?

Try and price it up a little more accurately. Starting from a position of £100k and getting a "could be twice that" isn't enough detail for you to work out what price would now work for you.

If you're going to be negotiating a substantial amount off you may want to prepare a picture of the costs together with quotes from the survey to share with the vendors - hoping they will assume any future purchaser will find themselves in the same position.

We were in a similar position recently (although smaller values). Our vendors however would not flex on price, in which case the house becomes more expensive (in total) and it requires a fresh assessment of what the house is worth to you.

So we need builders' estimates, a timber/damp survey, quote for removing the asbestos etc?

If it's a house you're (a) serious about and (b) think you might be able to agree a price on, then my view is that it's worth spending a bit of investigative money. You've already spent the better part of a grand presumably for your building survey and a bit more can drill into specific areas.

I'd get:

• a builder to look at the brickwork/chimneys
• a roofer to go up and look (your surveyor is normally just looking through a mini telescope)
• a timber and damp survey

The first you should be able to get free (although round here builders are incredibly busy at the moment). The second is worth a small fee if you need to. The third try and find a t&d surveyor who doesn't focus on flogging solutions - i.e. one you pay for. Your buildings surveyor may have recommendations.

Bear in mind that anyone can only judge what is accessible and visible. Especially true for the T&D. If the floors all have carpets down or fixed chipboard under that then they will be limited in what they can determine about the joists. Same goes for loft insulation etc.

Surveyor looked in the loft - the felting is torn and perished, daylight is visible in places and the roof is bowing because the tiles are too heavy for the structure!

and you are still considering it?
what are the good points?

It might not be so bad. Surveyors are professional Eeyores - they always fear the worst.

A few scary things came up on our survey - we had builders round to check and quote - everything was easily remedied and not that bad.

hmm, danny - but the roof here will be hugely expensive, it's falling in and threadbare! and ripping all the plaster off! and damp everywhere?

We had a bad survey with our house - extensive damp, rotten timbers and a rotten main roof joist. It's an old house so we were anticipating some problems but not to that extent. We seriously considered walking away but really loved the house so decided to try and agree a lower price. We had a couple of quotes from roofers and timber and damp specialists, and submitted a revised offer to the vendors with copies of the quotes to support our offer. It didn't come to as much as yours - more like 25-30k - but the vendors agreed to a reduced price. As someone else has said even if they had turned us down, the next person would only have got a survey and been in the same position.

I haven't anything useful to say but am intrigued by the asbestos. Where is it?

Yes that's what I'm thinking - it's hard to sell a house that needs that much work, and we are very good buyers - no chain, big deposit etc.
Re: the roof, we want to do a loft extension so there would be have been a cost there anyway and assume there must be some economy of scale in doing it with the roof? But the price will have to come down enough to make it economically viable for us.

Tell the vendors' /agents what's come up asap. TBH, didn't you notice any of this stuff when you were viewing? Have you done major refurbs before at all?

We knew it needed a lot of work but not as much as the survey has shown - the roof tiles look fine from outside, for example, it's the view from underneath that's scary! And no, we haven't done a major refurb before.

do you have somewhere to live during the months it will take to do work?
Assume that any of the quotes can turn out to be 10% as they can't see everything until they lift floors/plaster.

10% more, I mean.

Yes we have sold our house and are renting so could stay where we are while the work is being done - though obviously we'll have to factor in the additional cost.

Do me a favour - when you have your quotes for the extra go round and talk to the vendors about it like civilised people rather than using it as a way to demand £20k off 30mins before close of business on exchange day...

I've no intention of doing that Petra

Sorry didn't mean to imply you would - just venting about the c we sold to!

have you accepted that, Petra? I hope not!

We had a similar situation on our last house. We new it needed total renovation but the survey exposed potential dry rot and that the worm infestation was further spread than we'd realised.

We'd allowed quite a chunk for renovation but felt that the work was just more than we'd budgeted for. We went back to the vendors and said we'd pursue getting quotes for the work but guestimated we'd need a £50k reduction. We asked if it was worth our while pursuing or would they rather just continue marketing. They agreed to have sections of plaster removed to see how bad roof beams were etc and it was bad.

We purchased at about 60% of the asking price, 1/3 of the very over inflated original asking price.

If the vendor wants to sell, they will have to agree to further investigation and a price reduction. I would ask the surveyor to do more work on getting quotes. They will know experts, eg damp company, structural engineer, builders who can give you a better idea of the costs. They will be wrong, if course, because there will be more hidden problems that have not been included. There always are. Have a healthy contingency fund of about £50k more than they suggest. It actually sounds like a purchase for a builder/developer. If they are not buying it, should you? If you cannot spend more than £100k on renovations, I would look for another house. However, if the house is high value and you will get your money back, then go for it.

I'd get someone in who is experienced in looking at old buildings. Don't just get any old damp and timber surveyor as they will just sell you chemical products. Is the damp being caused by the roof? Gutters?

Why does all the plaster need to be replaced? Why do the chimneys need to come down? Get an experienced roofer to have a look at the roof and chimneys. That sounds like the first thing to do and go from there.