House renovations - any advice? Floorplans attached

[TakingTheStairs]

We are in the process of buying a lovely house that needs a few updates to make it more family friendly to us.

Downstairs
We would like to remove the wall between the kitchen and the dining room to make a kitchen diner. We'll probably put a counter up to divide the room, similar to the kitchen in the photo attached (though I know it won't be the exact same as our kitchen reaches further back than the dining room)

We'd like to move the downstairs loo to under the stairs from the "utility room" (which is actually just a lean-to). We will have to lose a bit of the kitchen for this as at the moment the space isn't large enough. I'm fine with this as it will be worth it.

And we'd also like to put doors between the reception rooms to allow more light into the north facing front room, but to give us the option of closing the rooms off.

Upstairs
We'd like to move the door to the bathroom further back onto the landing in line with the side of the loo so that the bathroom is made bigger and the loo is part of the bathroom. After that, the next step will be redesigning the bathroom to be a more efficient use of space!

Where should we start? Do we need to get an architect to draw up plans or will giving builders a clear idea be enough?

Would you do the same or would you change it another way?
Help!!!

Not much help in a practical sense, but we live in a house with a similar layout to this & the bathroom has been altered (not by us) in the same way & we love it. The bathroom is very spacious & ideal for us as we have 2 kids so lots of room at bathtime.

We also have a knocked through kitchen diner (extended at the back of the house) & again this is basically what sold us the house - we spend so much time in this room.

I would imagine you will need to get plans drawn up, but an architectural technician could do this for you - or perhaps if you contact the builder & they may be able to get plans drawn?

Sorry not much help but think what you are planning sounds/ looks great.

Thanks Aberchips. That's really great to hear that the alterations we are thinking of doing will work on a practical level too.

I think everything you say is sensible but get someone to professionally advise you about altering walls. An architectural technician may need some structural advice on this. Also, I think an island is better than a counter. You get easier access from the kitchen to the adjacent space and the kitchen feels more spacious. I had a counter like the one in your photo and it is a real pain to keep walking round the end of it. We now have an island which is so much better.

Thanks Milly, that's a very good point about the structural element. Would you recommend getting architects plans drawn up rather than letting a builder do plans, even if we know what we want?
Excellent point about the island too! Thanks

I've never used houzz Mary, I'll check it out tmr, thanks

You really need someone to look at that structurally -
I suspect that taking some space off the kitchen to add to under stairs for a loo might not be feasible or at least not straight forward - think that would be a supporting/load bearing wall.
Moving non-supporting walls is relatively easy/cheap - supporting walls harder/more costly. I also think you might need to get building control (in Scotland think they are called something else in England) to inspect/look at it...
(personally I love under stair storage ...but if you think you have enough elsewhere ...)

Opening up the receptions - and kitchen to dining room - both depend on what kind of wall ...
If you go too open plan though you don't have enough wall space to tuck things away - effectively you have a three wall room - or if I am following rightly - you want to open up between the kitchen and dining room AND between the reception and dinning room (with doors) - your dining room will have one wall -(none between kitchen, doors to reception and patio doors to outside?)

And your dividing doors will have to 'go' somewhere - lots of options but they either need a smaller opening so they can slide (take width but not depth) or wall space (depth) to fold into - might be a problem with the position of the doors - unless you block dining room door off. I would definitely make sure you can close the reception off ...you might actually want to have separate spaces. My parents are looking to downsize - currently have two receptions - one is a big dining/living room - has dining table, TV, sofa, chairs, etc and the other a more traditional living room with sofa TV etc (a snug?). DM is refusing to only have one (in her downsize!) as she wants to watch different TV programs or not watch etc to my DF - and a bedroom/ spare bedroom just isn't the same .
Actually we looked at house where it was a similar layout and gone completely open plan - door to reception was near the front door though, not near the 'dining room' - reception felt like a corridor - sofa one side, TV other and definite lack of space for storage cupboards etc (but then I'm a clutter queen and like cupboard space to hide things!), dinning room again was a bit of a corridor...route through to the patio/route to living room - felt a bit like someone had stuck a table in a big hall!

Bathroom -looks pretty straight forward and a good idea ....
I would ask a builder(s) for quotes etc - they will have a good idea anyway and might know an architect/architect technician you can use...if they have worked together before- and want to again - they should be able to communicate with each other...
How exciting!

Hi, that seems a pretty standard layout for 3 bed semi detached houses. Do you know the age of the house?

I don't think you need to involve architects and (although I stand to be corrected) I don't think you need planning permission either you certainly don't for knocking down the wall between the kitchen and the dining room, or for moving the door upstairs to give you a bigger bathroom, not sure about the process for knocking down the lean-to. Can't imagine that you need planning permission for that. You will need Building Regulation approval and sign off though. I would speak to neighbours / contacts for builder recommendations. In our case, the builder works closely with a structural engineer so the structural engineer came to check before the builder started. If you look on the planning portal it gives you more info about the process.

Obviously every house is different and you need to check, but the kitchen / dining room wall is likely to be load bearing and you'll need an RSJ in all probability (subject to the type of wall above it). If you're not removing all the wall between the living room / reception room (i.e. just putting doors in) its likely that you'll have to have a lintel put in but won't need an RSJ. Again, you need to check, I'm only going from my experience of having lived in 2 x 3 bed semis and having done something similar.

As for the toilet we also have our downstairs loo under the stairs (it was there when we moved in). Personally, I think its a great use of space, but it is tiny and you need to be clever with the fittings. Also depends on how much storage you have elsewhere in the house is there another cupboard in the hall for coats / shoes etc? Where are your gas / electricity meters? Ours literally is the 'under the stairs' cupboard though, it doesn't take up any of the kitchen at all. If you're talking about taking up space directly behind the stairs cupboard (i.e. not going out at the side of the house), that is a stud wall in our house (i.e. between under the stairs and kitchen) so if yours is the same, it would be relatively straightforward to move this wall and build a new stud wall to give you a slightly bigger space.

I agree with others that a fixed counter in the kitchen is a pain after a while an island unit works much better. We have had the layout both ways open plan kitchen diner which also opened into lounge was great with very small children (although did have to have a gate to section off the kitchen) and very social, but as they've got older (children are now 8), its been better to have 2 separate spaces (i.e. kitchen diner plus separate lounge). We also have had (in both houses) a separate utility so bear in mind the noise from the washing machine / dishwasher, where you're going to have your laundry (a constant issue for me!!) etc if you're considering going completely open plan.

Thank you so much for the advice.
Unlucky, that's a very good point about the dining room being reduced to one wall. And you're right, I absolutely don't want the reception rooms to turn into a big corridor. We're going to look at pocket doors that slide into the wall to give maximum choice for furniture layout in the front reception room and the dining room. But depending on the wall, that might be a very expensive option.
Glad you like the bathroom idea.

Mandy , the house is early 1930s. The area under the stairs could be divided into two areas; one small cupboard for the meters and then, if the wall is a stud wall, making more room to put a loo in the second "area". There is room in the hall to hang coats at the bottom of the stairs and the porch is deep enough to be able to have a bench with space for wellies etc. The porch, thankfully, is even deep enough to leave the (not exactly small) pram without having to fold it down, without blocking the way at all. If there wasn't a porch, it would have been a priority so that I didn't have to bring the pram into the house with dirty wheels!

The bit of the kitchen that sticks out at the back will be where the washing machine will go. It's not entirely shut away, but at least it won't be right beside the dinner table!

Now, to find some builders! Could anyone recommend some in the SW London/Surrey area?

Sorry - in Scotland not much help for recommendations
Building regulation sounds the same as building control here in Scotland. And agree don't think you need planning (unless listed - which I'm assuming it isn't)
Structural engineer is what I mean by Architectural technician (might have wrong terminology)
Under stairs - 1930s house - I'm thinking that will be a brick wall supporting the one above (next to toilet) but then doesn't look it according to plan ... (other walls do look supporting too - assuming brick walls between rooms upstairs)
I have stairs with a mini landing so can't have this but if you have room you can get cupboards/drawers that pull out of the side of stairs - rather than crawling into the space under the lower steps - you can even use the space under the bottom step...I love this idea
Agree ask your neighbours for builder recommendations, get at least 3 quotes and don't be afraid to ask for references/to see what they have done in the past...lots of cowboys out there ...
Good Luck!

Thank you Unlucky!

Sorry being a bit late getting back to you. Any competent architect or architectural technician should draw up the plans. Personally I would not let a builder do it. They are not qualified to do it and have not studied architecture.

As others have said, it is likely that some walls are structural so the architect should know who can advise on that element of the scheme. DH is a Structural Engineer (absolutely not an Architectural Technician) so when we knocked down walls in our house in the lounge and hall he did our calculations and drawings for the beams required. He would not have let the builder NEAR it without this input. We have two big beams holding up a corner of the house as we opened up the hall so it links through into an oak framed porch. You can do all sorts of things to internal walls - as long as the walls above are supported and this support has been assessed and calculated. A competent builder can then put in any necessary beams, but I would make sure they do this properly and that they are correctly placed on the supporting bricks/blocks. We also widened doorways to 1.15m (no doors) in the hall which lead into the kitchen and lounge. So much more light and so glad we did it.

Thanks MillyMollyMandy. One of the building firms
I spoke to said they use a structural engineer to advise them (who will do a site visit) and that they do what he tells them rather than making the call themselves, so that bodes well.

This house could be fabulous, I'm part excited, part daunted!