Load bearing wall?

[deedeelondon]

Can anyone help please? Desperately worried!

The dividing wall between the sitting room and dining room of my Victorian terrace (bought two and a half years ago) was almost completely removed by the previous owners to create one big living room. Having decided I didn't want such an open plan space and thought I would have the wall built in a bit on both sides and from the ceiling downwards to create something more like a double doorway sized opening between the rooms, perhaps adding some folding doors at some point - a very handy friend was going to do this for me as it is a quite straightforward job.
Whilst doing some preliminary preparation work today we discovered to our horror there doesn't appear to be a RSJ in place of the wall which was removed! I had assumed that there would be one there as I think that the wall which was removed is load bearing. My bedroom floor, which is directly above the sitting room, has a definite slope towards the centre of the house, which I wasn't unduly worried about as old houses are often a little wonky due to settlement. but now I'm convinced that the house is about to fall down! in fact, with that supporting wall downstairs having been taken out I'm not sure what's holding it all up.
Does anyone know anything about this stuff? I'm working on a tight budget and don't know how I'll be able to afford a structural engineer, if I need one, or having an RSJ put in, come to that. I'm not sure how much disruption that would cause to the rest of the house ( have just finished renovating and decorating everywhere else - the sitting room was to be the final bit of work before the house was finished - boo hoo!)
What do I need to do???
Has anyone had a similar problem?

You need someone to come in asap to check. Do you have any friends / contacts that can help? Otherwise there have trawl through the yellow pages and get a company out to give you a quote - at least then you'll get someone to see it. Have you checked with your house deeds / local planning authority for records of work done and whether there was building regs sign off? What did the Sellers Property Information Form say - there is a question on there from recollection about work that has been done at the property.

But as an aside - we are currently having the wall between the kitchen & dining room removed (also load bearing) but we're not having an RSJ fitted (so its not always necessary). We have had the wall above it demolished too (not load bearing) and re-built as a stud wall.

Your best bet is to get a structural engineer out to look.
It may not be a structural wall. Our Victorian bedroom has a definite slope but no walls have been removed.
Good indicators for a structural wall are. Is there a wall directly above it? Is that wall a masonry wall? If yes to both, then it's likely to be a structural wall although you need to get somebody to check for you.
Not all structural walls are masonry but in a Victorian house they are more likely to be.

Thanks to you both for your comments.
I haven't had a chance to check with local authority, as i just made the discovery late this afternoon, so will have weekend to sweat over it ! You have reassured me a bit Mandy21 in telling me that RSJs aren't always needed - I hope this is the case here. There was nothing about the work on the sellers Property Information Form, as far as I can remember.
Wonkylegs - there isn't enough of the original wall left to tell if it was a masonry wall or not. There is a wall above it, but it is a stud wall, as the first floor of the house was reconfigured when the bathroom was added at some point in the past.
Good idea about getting someone out to give a quote

Mandy21. Who said you did not need an RSJ? An unqualified builder? Good luck with that one!! What exactly do you think the load is now resting on? I will tell you. The other walls which the load will push out of alignment. Unless you have used a structural engineer to calculate that this is ok, I would be doubtful.

Deedeelondon. A structural engineer will be cheap in comparison to the cost of rebuilding walls in your house. You really cannot just ask around for help. Would you do this with a major health problem? Your house has a problem so get a chartered structural engineer to help you sort it out. Fitting an RSJ is not that expensive and will not need large piers. The savings you make with them will pay for the RSJ.

If you are in SW London/surrey I can recommend a good structural engineer we just used.

Thanks for your advice Milly. Do you always need a structural engineer when fitting an RSJ?
Papalazaru - unfortunately not. I'm in NE London, but thanks anyway,

I was referring to the wall above -
If that's a stud wall then there is a chance that the one below wasn't necessarily one. If it had been brick then it's much more likely to be structural.
It's not a hard and fast rule but stud walls in Victorian properties are less likely to be structural (this is not the case in modern properties where stud walls can often be structural).

Sorry Wonkylegs - misread your reply. Actually all the walls above are stud now I think about it, because, as I said, the first floor was ripped out and all the bedrooms re-sized to create an upstairs bathroom . So perhaps that was why no RSJ was put in.What do you think?? You seem to know what you're talking about Wonkylegs! Fingers crossed that's the case!!!

It's hard to give a definitive answer as I can't see it but it's a rough answer to hopefully give you a bit of an idea.
That would make sense if there are no structural walls upstairs.
I would still get a structural engineer out to give you a proper answer, set your mind at rest & provide a report that you can provide when you sell the house.
I'm an architect & spend a lot of time inspecting walls (I have an incredibly boring selection of photos) in buildings that we are thinking of knocking about. If I had any doubt I'd get in a structural engineer though as they can inspect & advise if anything needs to be done. It needn't be expensive but it will be invaluable.

milly I don't think you read my post properly, but no, it wasn't an unqualified builder. Thank you for the (un)constructive advice.

Thanks so much Wonky - you've been a great help. I don't suppose you could recommend someone??

Sorry I'm at the other end of the country from you & don't really know anyone down there I can recommend.

Aaah what a pity...

Mandy21. You did not say who advised you not to have an RSJ. There are plenty of people, including architects, who are not qualified to say if a wall is load bearing or not. General assumptions can be wrong, especially if houses have been altered over years masking the original building and load bearing structure. DH is FIStructE and has seen it all and worked with surveyors, architects, builders and owners who just do not understand structures! This is why Structural Engineers exist!

Milly
A structural engineer is not always needed. I can't speak for all architects but I was trained in basic structural principles, can recognised structure and have many many years of practical experience. I am also trained to understand when I need external help. If I had any doubts I would call in a structural engineer but they are not always needed.
I always give the analogy that if you think of the architect as a GP (a generalist who oversees), the structural engineer is the specialist. This doesn't mean that I can't diagnose but just that I can go to others for more in depth knowledge when needed. If that makes sense.

I'm sure your DH has seen architects who don't understand structure very well (I know some too) but it certainly doesn't apply to all of us.

Molly - you were patronising and jumped to an assumption that wasn't warranted. I understand its a serious issue which is why we sought professional qualified advice. And its your DH that is qualified by the sounds of it. Not you. I was trying to help the OP, not be told I needed 'luck' apparently because we're not having an RSJ and had apparently relied on an unqualified builder's advice.

I have consulted with DH over lunch on your behalf OP. He feels that the sloping floor is an indication that there should be an RSJ and that the missing wall was probably load bearing. It is by no means easy to know what is load bearing and what is not when walls above have been removed or changed so an inspection of the house is a good idea. Irrespective of what other posters say, I was correct in that generalist professionals are not necessarily qualified to give advice in difficult situations although they often think they are. DH makes money out of their mistakes. Sad but true!

Milly - I have seen massive mistakes by structural engineers too, they too aren't infallible. A large part of my job is kicking the 'specialists' into touch as they too aren't perfect (in fact the number of structural mistakes I have to point out from well known engineering firms is quite shocking sometimes)
If you actually read the replies I do suggest that the OP gets it checked out by a SE. It's knowing when to seek out help that is important, which is what I suggested. My other comments were, as I clarified a rough idea only as its impossible to say without seeing (whether you are an architect or a structural engineer).

As the OP is talking about a Victorian terrace, the layout & structural walls on these are often of a fairly similar type unless its a particularly large one. ( I would guess front lounge with dining room behind , hall & stairs to side, kitchen in rear offshoot or similar) The structural support within these houses is usually provided by the side walls of the terrace, therefore the wall between the lounge & dining room is often not a structural wall. Sometimes removal of this wall does require support even if its not structural because the upper dividing bedroom wall is brick and that needs to be supported but the OP says this is not the case.
Many Victorian houses that have original floors will have a level of sloping, as the timbers sag with age, this isn't necessarily a problem, if it sudden or was accompanied by new cracking it would definitely be a worry to be checked out but wonky floors are part & parcel of owning an old house and on its own isn't necessarily an issue.
A Victorian Terrace is not a complicated building and actually is usually fairly easy to understand as Victorian building is fairly reliable and in terms of terraces repetitive and standardised. ( the Victorians were good at this compared to the Georgians or post war periods which are often shocking).
I still reiterate my advice to get a SE out to give a brief report to set the OPs mind at rest & ensure that when they sell their house they don't have any issues.

Wonkylegs - have had SE out to have a look and you are absolutely right! Structural support is being provided by the side walls and the sagging is just historic settlement, so no RSJ needed. Thanks again for your sensible advice.