Does anyone know about renovating a house?

[MrsKoala]

We have had an offer accepted on a 3 bed Victorian semi, which needs a lot of work. I don't really know what're to start. I have a 20k budget for work, decorating and some furniture. I could do with some realistic advice on what different things will cost.

So if you would be willing to give me a bit of advice I'd be most grateful.

As well as some work on the roof and guttering and fixing/replacing the boiler and doing a bit of water damage repair (which the surveyor said would all come to about 7k) we need to:

• put in 2 velux windows and turn the loft into a usable space.
• move loft hatch to hallway ceiling (rather than second bedroom) and put in a decent pull down ladder
• strip all the wood chip paper off and replaster the whole house
• put in and tile a new bathroom
• replace cupboard doors and put in a new sink and work surface (I'd like cream doors and a wood work surface if poss) in kitchen
• Have 2 fireplaces moved from the bedrooms to the living and dining rooms
• knock out chimney breasts in 2 bedrooms
• have fitted wardrobes built in 2 bedrooms
• some floor boards need replacing
• replace banisters and landing balustrade

After this we would need to decorate, but will decide on that once we have established a budget for the above. So we could probably stretch to about 15k for the above. Is that wildly unrealistic?

Any advice would be wonderful :)
Thanks

Hope you manage a lunch time nap. Sounds like you have had a lucky escape. Unless doing up a property is your thing (ie have lots of skills and an excellent contact list) or you have money it doesn't sound the right time for you - especially if you aren't planning on staying. I've just finish a rennovation and was fortunate to be able to throw some money at it - even still I was the person stripping the woodchip off the ceilings !!

The mortgage is fine. We have a 30k deposit and 30k for fees and work. We could reduce the deposit to 25k and pay a little more a month which is also manageable and would give us 5k more to use.

Hmm - from reading the house spec (no floorplan) it sounds like they have taken a chunk out of the main bedroom to put an ensuite in there. You could always rip it out rather than take out the chimney? But that's partly because I love an open fire in the living room.
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29145567.html?premiumA=true
Have you seen this? Assuming it goes for near the asking price (which granted is a big assumption) it should be affordable for you if you have 60k saved up? You'd have to sleep in the loft given the size of the rooms but that might be quite nice as it has a dressing room off it for a cot

Vis SE Lofts - they do a lot of work locally to me. I would recommend them as a company that deliver to a high standard and to specification. They are also very quick as they bring in a big team of people and work like fury. However, like most builders you have to watch them like a hawk or they just assume stuff mostly because of the pace at which they work. We wanted a lot of changes to their standard build on our loft conversion which caused a lot of hassle to be honest, but I can't really fault what they have done.

My big lesson learned after two fixer uppers is to sit down and write a really detailed list of what you want. eg: 2 extra wall double sockets and to get a fixed and detailed price so you can remove stuff if you have to. Then leave yourself 25% contingency for all the stuff you forgot or never even considered.

When you start renovating there is always some unforseen costs. YHou should have at least 10% contingency.

I'd make a spreadsheet listing all the tasks that need to be done, prioritising them and allocating an estimated cost to each. That way you can juggle the costs and the priorities to fit your budget.

TBH small Victorian terraces were never designed to accommodate 7ft beds and cot sidecars. You may need to make some compromises.

Yes, the cot we can do away with but not the bed! We are big buggers and need at least a king size, and now we have a big co sleeping (when he bloody well does sleep!) ds and a baby to add in, we thought we'd better get a bigger bed. It has just cost us 2k and we love it.

dh would actually like to get the fire working but with really naughty ds and a new baby i thought it dangerous and impractical
if we ripped out the en suite we wouldn't get enough space or a square room. It is a very small shower cubicle and tiny sink in a little rectangular extra sort of L shape. If that makes sense. We could use the space as a wardrobe tho, but it still wouldn't solve the bed issue.

i think we need to go back and see it again.

Yes mrskoala, go back and look at it with a builder's eye!

Oscarwilde, thanks very very much for your info, much appreciated!

Just a comment on removing the chimney breasts: I saw a television programme recently where they said you can't just remove the chimney breast from one from room without removing the remaining chimney breast above it (eg in the loft), because otherwise the weight of the remaining brickwork would be unsupported.

I don't remember if they said you need to remove the chimney stack as well. Which would be difficult if it was a stack shared with the next door neighbour. Perhaps it can be supported from below.

The surveyor said about £1.5k to remove one chimney breast with a support rsj type thing. He said we'd get it cheaper if we wanted to remove all 4 with a deal of economy of scale type thing.

i think we should probably leave it. i just don't know where the buggering hell we will sleep tho.

DH has a ridiculous amount of work stuff and the loft would be perfect to keep it. Loads of books and equipment etc, so it wouldn't be so much about a space to work - altho he wants it for that too (and to pretend he's working whenever he wants to escape) - but more as a store/office which the dc can't get to. Perhaps just one Velux on the south facing side would suffice. I think if i said we can't afford the loft he'd refuse the whole house.

I have decided i can tolerate the kitchen but not the bathroom. So that would get priority too.

Not sure about the walls under the woodchip, but i would like to budget for it all being knackered and needing replastering so we don't get any nasty shocks.

So i think fixing the guttering and loft, converting the loft, a new bathroom and stripping and replastering the house are the essentials. the rest we can probably live with for a while.

Thanks for the link Oscar. We already have seen that house. Sadly the kitchen is far too small, the mortgage would be more than we would want, and the stamp duty would be 3%, rather than the 1% on the current house. That would then really eat into the 60k - as that has to include all fees, kitchen stuff like fridges, washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher etc and decoration, so we'd probably have only a £45k deposit left. If we got it at £280k the mortgage would still be £235k rather than the £195k with the current house.

Hi Plump - yes, the stack has to be supported or removed. Removal would be a right royal hassle as it would remove the neighbours ability to light their fires too and in many areas the planners would insist on it being retained.
Ours were removed all the way up where we took them out, so only had to support the stack so a wooden beam went in. If we'd removed a living room chimney breast but left the bedroom one in above, I think a steel beam would have been required. We were quoted 1000 per floor including the plastering and flooring to be inserted. I think we got a better deal in the end but that's a rough guideline for London.

Personally I like fires. Victorian houses can be very cold and draughty and so far, even with two small children in the house and a childproof fire guard they've been a godsend when it is bitter outside and you want to take the chill off the room you are in but there is no need to ramp the rest of the house up to 20degrees. Converting the loft though has made it more difficult to regulate the house I think.

MrsK. With our first house, we were pretty tight on space and had one small wardrobe each in a room very similar to yours. We just rotated clothes and other stuff by season and shoved stuff in the loft. It was quite good discipline actually as before packing away the winter woolies you always had a good sort through and got rid of stuff you hadn't worn.

Yes, we do that currently in our tiny flat and send the off season stuff up to Pils for storage (we did the same in the loft of our last house too, but that still took up a side of the chimney breast each). However, we still have too much stuff! (and If we had fitted wardrobes either side of the chimney breast -like our old huose - then where would the bed go?) The problem is i haven't changed size for 20 years and all my clothes are lovely, so i rarely get rid of anything as it all still fits and looks nice. Then each year i add a new coat, few dresses etc and it just grows! DH has a coat which takes up a quarter of his wardrobe alone. Then about 30 work shirts, 3 suits for work, then his casual stuff. I just don't understand how others cope with these small wardrobes - i don't consider us even having that much stuff but we obviously do

Have you looked at the Help to Buy scheme?

the surveyor didn't say that about removing the neighbours chimney or anything and we didn't in our old victorian terrace. we just had an rsj put in the roof.

is that the 5% deposit one?

Yes. That's the one. More on offer (20%) if it is a new build. If you definitely plan to go back to work when the kids are older that might be worth considering as you don't start paying it for 5 yrs. Only problem is that most new builds are a) out of townish and b) small and pokey for the same cash as a "pre-owned" house. new phrase of the day on Rightmove

If you have to do the work you mention I think you might be able to do it for this Ive done a larger renovation that incorporated elements of what you want to do:

1. Velux loft conversion (so no dormer) will cost at least 20k if you make it a proper habitable room. If you intend to sell it on, its worth doing it properly with stairs etc. With this you either need to do it properly and to code or do something very cheapladder / boarding out. You could then potentially use the loft as your main bedroom if its a good size and then use one of the smaller rooms as your husbands den
2. A new bathroom can cost very little. What dont you like? Does it just need new tiles and a fresh suite? As long as you dont need to change the position of anything and the bathroom itself isnt huge you can pick up a 3 piece suite for 500GBP. With a new shower and budget friendly tiles, you could probably do the entire thing for 2k and get something fairly nice
3. Replastering a house (skimming rather than from brick) thats your size could be 2k in SE London. The problem is you need to redecorate as well. If you can paint the entire house yourself then that is just the cost of the paint. Otherwise, budget a couple thousand for the all the walls.
4. If the house hasnt been touched in ages, you should probably budget for replacing the electrics. If you have to replaster and redecorate anyhow, updating the wiring would be best done at the same time to minimize costs. That will cost you again a few thousand.

I don't think we could afford only a 5% deposit. Once the mortgage goeas over £200k the mortgage will start to get quite tight. I'm hoping to go back to work in 2 years time, but, that may change as it's dependant on my parents selling up and finding a house they like locally and giving free childcare - that of course, could change. They may change their minds or not find anything they like, or get ill or anything. So i wouldn't want to hinge our finances all on that.

Londongirl, can you recommend a builder/architect? I think we may be buying nearby you. Many thanks!

Apparently the electrics are fine - but my dad would do that for us for free anyway.

The bathroom we were quoted at £3k without materials, so say another £1k for a bathroom suite and shower unit and tiles etc. So with contingency about £4-5k i reckon

We wouldn't be able to do a full loft conversion with stair case as would lose the second bedroom anyway. I think just insulating it (there is none) and making it usable for storage and a few hours peace for dh is the best we could manage.

I have the surveyors report here and there are some bullet points and recommendations:

Defect/Remedy Priority

1 Re-point chimney breast 2
2 General repairs to roof coverings (cement fillets etc 2
3 Clear all gutters and investigate and remedy leaking or
overflowing gutters (flank elevation) 1

1. External redecorations and repairs to fascias and

soffits 1

1. Re-point brickwork at low level and make good holes. 2
2. Re-point or repair brick boundary walls 2

7 Address causes of low level dampness to kitchen and bathroom 1

1. Hack off and re-plaster damp affected areas to flank

wall etc 1

1. Investigate and remedy lack of cold water to shower

WHB, other plumbing leaks and renew bathroom toilet flushing mechanism. 1 10. Further plumbing repairs (assuming existing fittings are retained) 11. Re-lamp light fittings to conservatory and investigate defective cooker hood 1 12. Investigate and remedy non-functioning heating boiler 1 11. Repair paviours to front garden, and make good asphalt were holed 2 12. Clear external gullies 1

Key
1 Immediate, or as soon as possible
2 In one to two years time or as required

We understand that you have budgeted approximately £30,000 for repairs and improvements. We would estimate that, depending on the extent of works carried out from
the list above, the cost of essential or recommended repairs is likely to cost in the region of
£4,000 to £8,000 (exclusive of VAT).

If you wish to create additional living space the most cost effective way of achieving this may be converting the roof space, but we would recommend that you approach a specialist loft conversion company to obtain a feasibility report and cost estimate.

It would be possible to return existing fireplaces to a condition that would allow solid fuel burning, but the cost of this would be relatively high.

Removal of chimney breasts to create additional space is technically possible. As a cost guide we would estimate that removal at one floor level is likely to be in the region of £1,500/ breast (exclusive of VAT).

3k with no materials to do a bathroom? Is the boiler being included in that price?

No, that was to put in a new p bath and shower, a new sink and toilet and do tiling. We would supply the suite and tiles, he would supply pipes and, er, plumbing stuff. Not sure whether that includes VAT tho.

I didn't mention the boiler.

if i want someone to just come and look at the boiler and tell me whether it needs repairing or replacing, can a plumber do this or does it have to be a boiler specialist? I've just called a couple of boiler people and they all charge about £75 to just come and look at it. Is that normal?

Right so i have arranged for a builder to meet me at the house tomo and a plumber may also pop along to give me a quote if he can get away.

Fingers crossed! :)

My bathroom materials came to about 1,000 for the suite, shower, towel rail and extractor fan, another 400 for the tiles and 450 for the shower booster pump an another 300 or so for flooring, so the labour and the materials he installer supplier were about 3K.

You could do the loft yourself (apart from the Velux). Putting in insulation and then boarding between the trusses is quite easy - just time-consuming.

And that's the big problem for you - time, when you have young children. Your DH may not be good at DIY but we've all had to learn and doing what you can yourself does bring the cost down substantially.

1. External redecorations and repairs to fascias and

soffits 1 - that could be expensive. I had mine replaced by UPVC - about 3K's worth of work as scaffolding was required.

The surveyors estimate of 8000 ex vat to do those essentials is also a bit optimistic to me and VAT will add another 400.

It also sounds like there is some additional plumbing you hadn't bargained for.

But the clincher that would make me walk away would be the damp. You'll need a specialist damp company to deal with it and you'll have the nuisance of hacked off and replaced plaster. Not good.

Having always lived in Victorian houses, I have never lived in one where damp hasn't been cited - So i wasn't that bothered by it in the survey!

This is what the surveyor has said about it:
Properties of this age were rarely provided with a damp proof course and we could find no clear physical evidence of subsequent provision. However the occurrence of low level damp found is restricted to areas of the kitchen and W.C walls, and it is possible that this dampness is as much a result of localised plumbing leaks/ poor surface water run-off, as
‘rising’ damp.

We also recorded high damp meter readings to the exposed flank wall; one resulting from plumbing leaks from the first floor en-suite shower and one from an apparently defective eaves gutter. As soon as the causes have been eliminated, damp affected plaster needs to
be hacked off and renewed to prevent the risk of any retained moisture evaporating back and causing further damage to decorations.

oh and i thought VAT was 20% so on £8000 wouldn't that be £1600? (my maths isn't great tho!)