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Original poster

WWYD: Tenant not agreeing on check out date.

77 replies

LondonSuperTrooper · 28/03/2014 12:39

I rented out my property via an estate agent with me managing the flat. My tenant has handed in his 8 weeks' notice period, which bang in the middle of me being out of the country. I rejected his suggested date of checking out and asked whether we can revert to the contractual date on the contract, i.e. 12th day of X month. He is refusing this check out date because he is on holiday.

Estate agent has had a chat with him with little success & is now unwilling to help as I'm managing the property. This is a very delicate situation as we both work for the same company, sitting a few feet away from each other. He is very popular within the company and very very stubborn.

My DP is suggesting releasing him early, which is right before we go on holiday. I am somewhat unwilling to release him early (which means he has given 6 weeks notice) in the event of not finding a tenant in time. Plus, the property will need some minor DIY & I'm not happy to leave the flat empty & without rent whilst we are on holiday.

I suggested to him that I would release him early if I find a tenant but otherwise his agreed check out date is 12 of X month. He is having none of it and is not budging! How can I resolve this situation please?

OP posts:
AreYouFeelingLucky · 28/03/2014 12:47

So is rent due on the 12th?

Rental contracts usually stipulate that you give a months' notice on or before your rent payment date, and this then expires on that date - so you'd give notice on or before the 1st April to move out on the 1st May. Is yours the same?

Does your tenant want to leave before or after that date? Will they have completed their notice period at that time?

In reality, I suspect that there would be little that you can do, but it'll depend on whether the notice period is complete.

Original poster
LondonSuperTrooper · 28/03/2014 12:54

Yes, my rent is due on the 12th, but he pays it on the 1st of every month.

He's been in there for three years, the last year we changed to a rolling contract.

Contractually, he should vacate on the 12th doesn't he?

OP posts:
HaveToWearHeels · 28/03/2014 14:54

Surely if he is on a rolling contract, he only has to give a months notice ?

Crutchlow35 · 28/03/2014 17:37

Tenants only give one months notice. You give 2.

specialsubject · 28/03/2014 18:20

if he is on a rolling contract, he only needs to give four weeks notice, try that.

his tenancy ends on the 12th and he must be out then. He can leave earlier if he wants, no refund is mandated from you. But if you aren't around for the checkout on the 12th, that's not his problem. You'll have to pay a checkout clerk.

stubborn, popularity, irrelevant. This is governed by law and contracts.

Original poster
LondonSuperTrooper · 31/03/2014 09:27

Thanks for your replies.

He is on a rolling contract and it states 8 weeks notice from both parties, with previous terms and conditions remaining the same, i.e his tenancy runs form 12 to 12 of any month.

Special, I am around on the 12 but he is not.... hence the problem.

OP posts:
CelticPromise · 31/03/2014 09:31

If the contract says eight weeks and he's given eight weeks, I'd say he's entitled to leave when he suggests. It's not his problem if you're away.

Original poster
LondonSuperTrooper · 31/03/2014 09:38

Celtic I agree. But his 8 weeks notice should be up to 12 of the month. This is written in the contract.

I thought that it's pretty common to move out of the date that you move in, i.e. 12th, ........it seems not to be so common on Mumsnet!

OP posts:
CelticPromise · 31/03/2014 09:52

Oh I see. Hmmm. I'm not a contract lawyer but... If new contract says eight weeks notice and you are relying on the old contact for the 12th of the month, it's arguable that the new contact 8 weeks has superseded the 12th of the month iyswim. I think it is common to move out when you moved in but less so if you have been there several years.

Anyway, if you disagree on what the contract requires you will have to try to agree. I would speak to him directly- forget the estate agent- and tell him what your understanding of the contract is and try to reach a compromise.

plantsitter · 31/03/2014 09:58

I think you want your cake and eat it frankly. He doesn't want pay rent when he's not living there just as you don't want empty weeks. He's given you your 8 weeks notice - I think holding him to the 12th is legally dodgy and certainly a bit out of order. Can you pay the agent to do the check out and find a new tenant or threaten taking your business elsewhere?

foxdongle · 31/03/2014 09:58

hi our tenant is on a rolling contract whilst she is waiting to buy.
In our contract she has to give us notice by the 7th of April to leave on the 7th of May. if she waits until the 8th of April it becomes the 7th of June. obviously she can leave before this date, but she would still have to pay up until then.

our property has always rented out straight away so fingers crossed for when she leaves. is this the case for you,? if so and he has been a reasonable tenant for 3 years I would pick the least stressful decision. Arguments with tenants can become a nightmare I would try to avoid.

I would be inclined to agree with your dp, especially as you want to enjoy your holiday and not spend your time together fretting. We once left ours empty for 2 weeks in between tenants, whilst we were on hol and tbh we didn't think about it. We left our home empty, and both were insured. Tenants leave them empty when they go away/on hol don't they?

Could someone you trust look after the place when you are away? And could that person, seeing as they are only minor issues, supervise the maintenance? Could you have someone lined up ready to rent it as soon as you get back? You might only lose a couple of weeks rent , if at all.
hope you sort it.

TeenageMutantNinjaTurtle · 31/03/2014 09:59

I don't think I have ever moved out of a rented flat on the same day of the month I moved in... usually the notice period runs from the date you give notice, I've never had a contract where by I can only give notice on certain days of the month.

Can you let him leave on the date he wants, but agree that the inventory/check out will be done on the 12th and he won't get his deposit back until then? That seems like a fair compromise to me - especially as this is someone you don't want to fall out with...?

specialsubject · 31/03/2014 10:05

sorry OP, just read that HE is on holiday on the 12th. In which case it is HIS problem. His lease runs out then and he needs to leave on or before then.

he is not legally allowed to stay beyond that. Of course he can, in which case you will need to start eviction proceedings, which are expensive. So it may be worth doing some kind of deal to save you money. Or employ a checkout clerk, although they are not always as thorough as they should be.

PfftTheMagicDraco · 31/03/2014 10:06

plantsitter has it right. He's given the notice you require (which is more than standard) and he can move out when is convenient for him, not you.

ReadyToBreak · 31/03/2014 10:08

It's irrelevant what's in the contract. Statute law overrides this, a tenant only needs to give a months notice. The LL must give two months.

This is to protect tenants from unreasonable clauses in contracts.

See section re notice - periodic tenancy:
www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/tenants-notice-quit#

Your tenant should ensure notice period ties up with the tenancy start dates (may be different from rent payment days) eg if tenancy started on 12th then notice should be given from 12th of the month to leave on 11th of the following month.

CoilRegret · 31/03/2014 10:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Quinteszilla · 31/03/2014 10:14

He can move out earlier than the 12th, and you can arrange a check out date together at any point convenient to you on or after the 12th.

If you want a check out date before the 12th, ie during his contract while he is actually still living there, you are shortening his notice period, but then you cant get rent paid until the 12th.

I recently rented, moved out a month before, paid rent up till my notice date, but it was only convenient for us and landlord to do the check out a week after the day the contract said we were to vacate the property.

I think you are being difficult. You need to have the property empty to get on with diy, and you can expect to have a tenant moving in the next day. You can start marketing the property now, do the diy after tenant has left, and ideally have a new tenant in 14 days later on the 1st June. It is just 2 weeks without rent.

Original poster
LondonSuperTrooper · 31/03/2014 11:06

plant why am I being out of order? Why have a contract if one doesn't stick to it?!

Fox I have no issues with having an empty flat whilst of holiday. My issue is that I will potentially lose money if the flat is empty. If I release before I go on holiday, then he's only given me 5 weeks' notice!

Ready, this is exactly what I thought but he's saying he has given me 8 weeks' notice & hence it's my problem that I am on holiday!

Quint Exactly, I need the property empty so I can do the DIY. If I release him early, then I will lose 3-4 weeks of income as opposed to 1-2 weeks. Why am I being difficult when he's the one who is not sticking to the contract?

FYI, We will be using an independent checking out firm. He's refusing to do the check out on the 12 and is not willing to have someone else to act on his behalf. And, he is not willing to pay rent up to the 12, he wants to stop paying on the day that he moves out.

OP posts:
Quinteszilla · 31/03/2014 11:29

You are difficult because you seem to be holding him to 2 months when statute law says 1 month notice for tenants.

Why piss off a colleague for the sake of two weeks rent?

foxdongle · 31/03/2014 11:58

ok in answer to wwyd- this or as close to it;
I would agree to him moving out early
I would get estate agent to advertise the property now (have they indicated if they have waiting list/inquiries and such?)- in rental terms even six weeks is ages - not sure where you are- each time ours is available , it rents out in a couple of days.
get all maintenance booked in for the day after he moves out.
check out flat.
get new tenant in.
enjoy your holiday.

Sunnyshores · 31/03/2014 12:52

Agree with ReadytoBreak - Your contract clause of 8 weeks notice is not legally binding, the Law says only has to give 1 rental months notice - ie to the 12th. He can give that, but then ask to leave whenever he likes, ie rent for a further 2 days, 1 week whatever. Likewise you can refuse further days, weeks, months.

So in effect, he has given the legal notice to 12th and then asked to stay for another x period. Its now your choice to let him leave on 12th or agree the further x days.

His leaving date isnt to be confused with a checkout - which you can do
whenever you like after he's left, with or without him there.

Sunnyshores · 31/03/2014 12:57

what I'd also say is if he's been there 3 year, been no trouble, hasnt caused any damage - then he's a good tenant plus he's a work colleague which is awkward, so I wouldnt push this too far. Being a landlord is unfortunately about knowing when to pick your battles!

Beastofburden · 31/03/2014 13:07

The thing about sticking to contracts, is you can only make ppl stick to lawful contracts. If your contract is more onerous than the law provides, I don't think you can enforce it. It's a very bad idea, tbh, because there's a risk that the whole contract is at risk, not just the notice period.

I would never hand out a rolling contract; assured shorthold tenancy or nothing would be my advice.

Anyway, it looks as if you will lose a bit of money but that is the cost of not employing an agent to do this professionally; probably you will have saved money overall compared with paying agent fees.

BillyBanter · 31/03/2014 13:31

Since when were tenants only allowed to give notice on the same day of the month they moved in on? Ridiculous.

You should have vacant periods built into your budgeting.

He's given you loads of notice despite your contract being illegal. Accept that and move on.

Arohaitis · 31/03/2014 13:39

what plantsitter, sunny shores and quint said.

you need to cover the cost of your empty flat while you are on holiday

I would never agree to someone doing the checkout for me

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