How do you start planning a kitchen and what are the differences between the top end and budget options?

[HappyAsEyeAm]

We are in the very early stages of planning to replace our kitchen. That is, we have made the decision to do it, and now need to decide what we want.

I ahve no idea where to start. All of the houses we've lived in have already had newish kitchens and so we've lived with what we have. But we're going to replace our enormous kitchen window with bi-folding doors, and replace the kitchen, appliances, flooring, units, worksurface etc too as its looking quite tired.

Where do I start?

What (apart from price) are the differences between top end and budget? I think our budget will be middle-ish.

And what are the reputable firms/brands?

I have no ideas for layout, colour, finish etc. The only thing is that I know that we need to reposition our sink so that it is closer to the outside drain, and therefore stop the smells coing up through the plughole due to the waste water sitting in the pipes with insufficient trajectory to move down to the drain. And I want a proper draining board and not a draining board that is part of the work surface. I think.

First, I think you need to work out what sort of style you want (shaker, high gloss, freestanding, industrial etc) so spend a couple of Saturdays going into several kitchen shops to get some ideas of styles etc. If you are totally clueless go to a variety (eg harvey jones or kit stone to see shaker styles, another company to see German or high gloss, maybe magnet to see a wide variety). And look at some of the home magazines at styles.... Or download the Houzz app. You need an idea of style first, then you can start talking to companies that have that sort of style.

I'd suggest then roughly sketching your space, and taking some rough measurements so you have some information to give people. Then go into a few different companies that sell your style and ask for some estimates based on the sketches, their ideas etc. This will give you an idea of what you can afford (don't forget to ask about fitting costs and what range of of appliances that the estimates are based on). Also remember to factor I cost of flooring, decoration (and plumbing if you want to move sinks).

Then go back to two or three of the people at the right budget that you like best and ask for detailed designs and costs...

There's a rough estimate for how much to spend on a kitchen - I think its 5% of your houses value so £200k house = a £10k kitchen. Spend more and it wont add to the value, spend less and it will look cheap and out of place.

Difference in value, things like: How bespoke ie how much is made to fit your kitchen exactly, rather than off the peg sized units. What the carcasses are made of, What the door fronts are made of Whether they are hand painted doors, soft closing drawers.

You can make it look more expensive by spending more on the sink, taps, worktop, handles. A good chippy to alter units or fill any gaps.

I've brought a few under £5k kitchens for 2 bed rental houses from Howdens and Benchmark. They're fine but nothing special. Havent looked, but I suspect Homebase, Wickes, B&Q would be this end too.

Midrange - Ikea

For my fabulous dreamy kitchen I've just brought Kitstone (Neptune). You could get a small kitchen without appliances for £10k.

Thanks for the guidance. Our kitchen is quite big at the moment, so lots of units and worksurfaces. Because of where we live (south east, towards London), our house currently has quite a high value. DH would never agree to spending 5% of the value of the house on a kitchen, but I get your point. I will just have to make it look more expensive with finishing taps, handles etc, as you say. I like gloss cabinets, but I don't know how practical that is with 2 DC and a heavy handed DH. Maybe shaker style will better suit us.

I will take a walk round some kitchen design shops.

I quite like the idea of soft closing doors!

The Neptune Chichester kitchen is gorgeous.

In slight difference to Sunnyshores post I would put the primary outlets into this order

Shed/Entry level kitchens -
Ikea, Homebase basic, B&Q, Ridgeons, Jewsons, Tesco, Wren, Symphony and the contract ranges from Howdens/Benchmarx and Wickes

Low Mid-range Kitchens -
Magnet, Benchmarx, Howdens, Wickes, Betta Living, Wren, Mastercraft, Kuchenhaus

Upper Mid-range Kitchens -
Premier Kitchens, Moben, John lewis, Porcelonsa, The Kitchen Company, KBBC plus a number of independent companies

Higher level Kitchens -
Seimatic, Christians, Poggen Pohl, Plain English, In-toto, Smallbone, Roundhouse and a number of independants.

Not an exhaustive list by a long shot, there are hundreds and hundreds of kitchen outlets out there, but these are the prime contenders.

The 5% rule is not a bad one, although there is a little variety dependent on location as the average London property doesn't necessarily need to have the 5% spent to get a kitchen that suits the value.

If I had to pick from each category I would say the Homebase's better kitchens, Benchmarx and Howdens all produce good quality units for the price at the lower to mid end. John Lewis kitchens and service outstrip the others in their group and I love Roundhouse and In-toto for the lower top end products. I would have a Smallbone if money was no object though.

In terms of difference and quality the main points are the cabinet construction and material, the quality and finish on the fascias and decorative items and the type and quality of gadgets/storage solutions and associated toys.

Like a car at first glance they all look of a similar nature and are designed to do the same job. Look under the bonnet and around the interior and you start to see where the differences are.

I would suggest having a look around the showrooms of a few from each level to get some ideas of the style you like and preferred quality.When you have a rough idea call in a few companies to design and cost your kitchen for you.

You're putting ikea below Magnet? really?

My mother has a Magnet kitchen and I can't believe anything could be worse. I know several people with ikea kitchens getting on for 10y old and they still look fine - hers fell apart a long time ago.

I think that list is based on cost, and I know a lot of people say that for low cost but good quality, ikea takes some beating.

Also in the upper mid range I would put kit stone (Neptune) and harvey jones. If you like the styles they have, try handmade kitchens of Christchurch. They do have a design service, but you have to pay separately for it, and if you go in a sale (next one starts in April) then you get a Harvey jones/ Neptune type kitchen for about 30-50% less. Lots of ability to bespoke it, so you can copy the styles of ones you like.

[disclaimer: not sure on quality yet, as my kitchen is in bits in the garage, but seems good]

I think a lot of it depends on many variables, but the quality of materials used in the Ikea kitchen offering are of a lower standard than the Magnet kitchens in general.
A good carpenter/fitter can make any kitchen look good and last well to a point, equally a bad fitter given the best kitchen in the world could easily make a bodge of it.
I have seen well fitted B&Q kitchens outliving poorly installed Wickes kitchens, but there are a number of factors that make Wickes kitchen better quality than B&Q.

The biggest problem with most kitchens is poor fitting. There is no regulations over who can fit a kitchen, no standard that has to be met and no governing body who ensure a certain standard is achieved. It is important to get personal recommendations and even better see examples of work before selecting a tradesman to carry out work like kitchen installation.

Pickles - I have to say I disagree with some of your classifications

Moben is dead
Premier in lower end
Intoto lower mid-mid
John lewis - lower - mid.

Classifying Intoto with Roundhouse or Siematic is just not on.

Pickles I think you are quite rude actually. Describing a kitchen which lots of mums netters will have as "shed entry" level is not nice.

Pickles is correct in many ways
Ikea/howdens is an entry level kitchen within the market.
A few of her placements are incorrect as Moben (when alive) are B & Q standard flat pack with high cost.
Wren are better than all low mid ranges listed.
in-toto are very mid range also with high costs
Magnet are the same as Moben were.

Best way to look at it is find someone who can offer options at your standard of cost

I am sorry annalouiseh but Wren is probably the worst kitchen I have come across. I dont rate Ikea either but atleast its dirt cheap. Wren is just pure shocking rubbish

I had no idea that this would be so contentious! We will be in this house for about 15 years, I'd imagine, and I have no intention of replacing the kitchen again, so it has to last. I like modern styles (either high gloss or shaker), clean lines, metal handles, with no ornate edging. I'm going to have to choose something which is less likely to date, so maybe I should go shaker style.

I will price up a John Lewis kitchen bearing in mind the space we would wnt to fill and the appliances we need, and see what that comes in as. And then I will know whether I need to go for something lower range or whether I could step up to something better.

How much should I be allowing for fitting in relation to the price of the kitchen itself? There is no point me thinking I can afford eg a John Lewis one if the fitting takes it over budget.

Thanks all for your opinions.

if you want something to last 15 years then you will have to look at a mid-range or higher product. A shed product just isnt going to cut it.

Allow around £1600 + VAT for a good fitting job and then factor in tiling, plastering, electrics, decorating, kitchen removal and waste disposal. Good kitchen fitters dont come cheap unfortunately.

And you can do far better than buying one from JL except the fact that you will get some peace of mind in buying from them. The product quality is very mediocre, prices high and design is average at best.

If I were you I would go and see someone who will actually design the kitchen for you.
We had a roundhouse kitchen put in and the best bit for me was the whole design process.
The guy came to my home and talked to me about my family, how we lived, what we needed and made suggestions that I never would have thought of - like placing a power point under the central island where my ds2 was most likely to want to sit. Ds2 has asd and wants to have his laptop plugged in near him when he is with us. So now ds2 spends most of his evenings with us, helping with the cooking etc, rather than leaving the room because he needs to sit near his laptop.
He created a small office area for me too so all the kids school slips and stuff are to hand but out of the way.

Those are small examples but the design is fantastic and changed how we use our home.
We also chose the materials and white goods at hatever price range we wanted so you cn control how expensive it gets.
You could get design advice and a price and then decide.
It's a completely different process from the guys who want you to bring a floor plan.
It's worth going through whatever you decide.

As someone who is also doing kitchen research, this thread is useful.

Pickles, I don't think your comments about shed/entry level are rude at all. You are just reflecting the market from bottom end to upper. You are right, the likes of IKEA and howdens are the lower/entry end of the market and that is reflected in their price. I went for a Howdens kitchen in my buy to let because the price was good but I wasn't under any illusions about quality of materials and craftsmanship. As it happens two of the cupboard drawers have collapsed just 2 years after installation.. Like most things you get what you pay for and with kitchens this is generally true. My advice for OP is to look around but ultimately go with the best quality and fitting she can afford. If it's to last 15 years there's no point cutting corners. As the saying goes, 'buy cheap, buy twice' .

Second what Pagwatch says. Good design is everything and a good designer will be able to tease out critical information needed to make it work for you.

While independent kitchen design works to a point, the problem I have with it is that you are not often able to get a true 'like for like' quote done because not every kitchen manufacturer offers the same unit. Some offer more variety than others and a designer that knows his/her product will be able to tap into the offering pool and make sure you get what best for you.

For a kitchen to last 15 years, you will have to go mid-high range, both so it lasts without falling to pieces and so it doesnt date stylewise.
On that point, you say high gloss - I would have thought that would possibly date whereas Shaker is more classic.

With my neptune kitchen, although the units were very good value for the quality, the appliances, sink, tap, worktops could be found quite a bit cheaper elsewhere. Fitting can also be found cheaper, but we didnt know anyone so went with their recommended fitter, he was amazing and cost £2200 VATinc.

Loving the shaker style kitchens on the Roundhouse website. I really like the idea of someone working out what works for me and designing around that. The problem I always have is that I cannot come up with ideas myself, and I find it hard to put my finger on what I want and express that well. On the other hand, I find it easy to say, after the whole process is comlete, what I don't like and what doesn't work and what I wish could be changed! So I need someone to take control and make suggestions.

5% of house value - really?? Where we are house hunting in london that would make the cost of a kitchen nearly £80k! I'd expect gold leaf and Swarovski crystals adorned kitchen for that! ;-)

Sunny would that not depend on the area you are in? My house is worth £350 k but you would never put in a £17k kitchen because it's a first time buyer house it just so happens to be in the South East where house prices are inflated.

happy I'm so like you; easy to say what I don't like. I'm going through the new kitchen process shortly, I've had a 10 different designs.
I would start looking at other peoples' kitchens and asking questions. my friends are bored of me peering in their cupboards.
Think about how you cook, where you want to store things (food processor out daily or occasionally, larder in the kitchen or maybe you have storage elsewhere, do you need a coffee maker/hotwater tap , do you need somewhere for paper etc) then sit down with a designer.
Get some different designs and see what you like.
FWIW I've trawled lots of mid/high end companies and am going with a joiner who specialises in kitchens.

I know it is obvious but dont forget that the electrics go under the kitchen . You will need to plan this and changes after the work has started may be expensive.

Depending on how long it was since you last had your wiring looked at then you may need to factor in some significant electrical work.

We had Cotteswood. They design for your lifestyle, have a range of styles, but all fairly traditional, and build the units in their own factory and send their own fitters to fit it. Good aftercare too. Work tops cost a lot of the purchase price. We found their quotes for hob, sink, taps etc to be competitive. They visited us and we talked at length about what we wanted.
I had draining grooves cut into the granite in my old kitchen, but we prefer the double butlers sink we have now where draining is done in the second sink. Water used to go everywhere from the granite! I would get a dishwasher though, OP.

We've gone for German kitchens both times, because we think they're a good compromise between high quality and price (DH used to live and work in Germany and say that Germans are very very price conscious.) Certainly the kitchens seem to have lasted well - the people we sold our old house too still have the kitchen going strong, and although it was a more modern design which we like, it was low key enough that they were able to give it a bit more of a 'country kitchen' twist.