What is fair ' wear & tear' in a rental after 3.5 years ?

[escape]

Looking to move , maybe in a month at the soonest if today's application is accepted :)
Lived in this property for 3.5 years and would like to gain full deposit back as you'd expect.
We have really had our fingers burned in the past on this issue, however so I really want to be 'front foot'
House is worth a lot less than she paid for it these days and I even think she will get less rent next time too, so expect her to niggle...
Anyone any experienced thoughts on what would count as fair wear and tear after 3.5 years? TIA

if your deposit is in a protected scheme (illegal otherwise, so presumably you've checked) landlord has to prove that you've damaged something.

the paperwork from my agent (I'm a landlord) says that I should expect carpets to be worthless in 5 years or so, complete redecoration in 3-6 years and appliances (which I don't include) destroyed in 3- 8 years. So unless the place was newly decorated when you moved in, and unless you've had wall scribbles or other non-wear and tear, there won't be deductions. It doesn't work on 'niggles', especially not with an inventory.

the worth of the house and the current rental value obviously have no bearing on your deposit. Utterly irrelevant.

Yes it's in a protected scheme - managed by reputable EA chain. As I mentioned, been horribly burned previously , and I only mention house prices and rental value as a means to knowing she would try and recoup anything she could.
This is my first experience as a tenant in the UK despite being a landlord abroad.
Thank you for the relevant insight Special Subject - good to know.

don't assume from what you read on here that all UK landlords are money-grabbing, sick Rachman types. What you need to do at tenancy end will be in your tenancy, beyond that you leave it clean, tidy and empty of your possessions. It's all just common sense and reasonable behaviour.

Also ignore what was in today's Times...gnash... UK house rental returns 3% gross for most. At best.

oh, and for the other side (where all the landlord-haters are mysteriously silent) read this thread..

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/1975168-Need-to-sell-property-I-rent-out-quickly-any-advice

Ooh I have a question along these lines, we are moving out after five yrs in current property, our LLs are difficult but overseas so everything is handled by morally questionable-- estate agents.

There are two little issues I'm not sure if they fall into acceptable wear and tear, a little chip in the Formica kitchen bench which is glued back in but noticeable size about half your little finger nail. Other issue is varnish leached into carpet from dinning table leg and spilt milk accident, carpets have been professionally cleaned but square of discoloured carpet remains unfortunately, noticeable but not really awful.

We have been exemplary tenants in every other way and will get place professionally cleaned on exit, even tho it wasn't particularly clean when we moved in.

Should those two issues fall under wear and tear?

I would say so, yes (given our experience). Possibly slight question if your table but deduction would only be a percentage of the current value of the carpet, and after 5 years would be bugger all. Real people do spill milk occasionally.

if that's all it is then you sound very careful tenants and your landlords are lucky! (thinks - IRON BURN on new carpet, scribbled on bath, wall scrawls, missing curtain pelmets, etc etc - and that was the good tenants...)

it's part and parcel of it all but it was a bit after leaving an immaculate house.

lessons for both parties; get an inventory (we did) and don't trust the clerk to get it right (we won't again...)

Again, great to hear experiences! I totally see both sides of the coin. My husbands company who were effectively the tenants of one of our homes a rod were effectively defrauded of thousands by the landlord who declared the huge flood tht occurred 5 days after we vacated was our fault. :(

I'm not worried about this one really but my UK experience has been that all tenants are dodgy and only renting as not fit to be on a property ladder.

Will be interesting with regards to the walls, as weren't perfect when I moved in, and I felt quite the spoilt expat when I asked if she would be reprinting before we moved in! You'd think I'd asked for the toilets replacing!

I think that comment about tenants is somewhat harsh to say the least! The situation you mention could not arise with a protected deposit and a proper checkout in the UK.

People rent for all sorts of reasons; for instance having just had new tenants, prospective ones included a just-divorced woman who just wanted somewhere to live quickly after a forced house sale. Not at all dodgy. UK job market is shaky, people may need location flexibility, hence they rent. Many other reasons.

not for tenants to repaint at end of tenancy, unless they changed colours during it and you made it a condition to put the magnolia back. In fact after an experience I wouldn't let tenants paint, what a botched job...

Ooooh escape that is very rude and incredibly judgemental, people choose to rent for all kinds of reasons... we cannot bring ourselves to pay huge sums for what we consider very average housing here, same monies by amazing properties in NZ so we choose to stay renting and save for our return to NZ ... not fit to be on the property ladder!!!????

I'm not worried about this one really but my UK experience has been that all tenants are dodgy and only renting as not fit to be on a property ladder.

Fuck off.

We lived in a rental for over 3 years and we got our full deposit back. We steam cleaned the carpets and gave the place a thorough clean - much cleaner when we left it than when we moved in. The letting agents were pretty relaxed about it - I think it's different when you're renting with landlord directly though

actually your contract is ALWAYS with the landlord, agent or not. The landlord may be abroad and having to trust the agent, who may not give a toss about the state of the place despite being paid to do so.

but if you leave the place clean, that's a lot of the battle.

Yes I know that . Reality though is that some landlords - who do inspections etc themselves - are completely anal and expect the property to be in exactly the same condition as it was initally let regardless of wear and tear.

oooops, I completely meant that I as a tenant have been made to feel that way!

Lord, I am the one renting for 'all sorts of reasons* - lived abroad for 10 years until my husband was made redundant , Made to feel. absolutely dreadful by anyone I met via resettling ( banks, agencies etc ) just by virtue of no credit record etc etc.. Been a horrible time..
So certainly nothing bad to say about renters!

Soz for misscomms!

bonvivant - that's my worry too, especially with landlords who are not ' professional LL' they still ave too much emotional attachment to the places and unrealistic expectations - mine is one of those!

I withdraw my fuck off.

And echo what others have said. They have to justify money taken from the deposit. Take photos.

cheers Billy!

I felt a complete div when I came back to read the thread!

I'm not overly worried, as no damage , stains etc, just know she will nitpick...

Wondering whether to do anything about the paintwork at all, as far from perfect when we moved in , and yes, we have photos, to be fair, the agent did them.

She left me a RED paper lampshade in the master bedroom!
Looking forward to putting that back up for her...

Someone on another thread was incredulous when I mentioned 'betterment' but I had to use the threat of it when a dodgy LL tried to keep my deposit (before protection scheme)

Most LL I have come across have been fair, but it's like everything else (including tenants) you will always get one or two trying it on. I always take photos at start & end of tenancy or any work done (by LL or paid for by me) it just keeps everyone right. So it sounds like you have proof of how the property was when you moved in if there is any issue.

photos also invaluable when hiring cars on holiday I noticed from an ex

Can I please hijack for a bit of advice too (as tenants aan Landlords are both here...)
We hope to relocate abroad for a couple of years and would like to keep our house here and rent it our while we are away.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a 'how to' and 'what to look out for' website..or just tell me...
And if we are overseas and letting through a local agent, what are we liable for financially- paying the mortgage, the agent's fees, buildings insurance, a gardner/hedge cutter quarterly..anything else?
And is our income taxed, or just the profit?
Trying to do the sums to see if our rental income with cover all this as well as fair wear and tear...
And do we really have to let our mortgage provider know we're not living there for a while (it will still be our only 'home' in the UK) or switch to a buy-to-let?
What to do??
Thankyou xx

Op the last time I rented, the agent did an inspection before I started packing and gave me a specific list of issues which was very helpful. I did everything asked, left it clean and got deposit back in full. If in doubt perhaps ask for this?

I would echo a comment above, I rent my flat and it is hard to be completely objective. But in general I just expect it to be clean. My last tenant lost some of his deposit because he had three cats which had been using the utility room carpet as a toilet. The agreement specified no pets and the carpet was sodden. I had to replace it, no cleaning that! They had also used the window seals to sharpen their claws so that was all shredded and had to be replaced. I expect to have to paint between tenants if it's been more than a year, and replace carpets after 3-5 years depending on wear. The odd mark or stain is fair wear and tear IMO.

I have a tenant moving out in a few weeks and from the interim condition check, her child has made the walls dirty by putting fingerprints and yuk all over them. The house was completely re painted inside and out before tenants moved in and was perfect. Her partner has walked out and is refusing to pay his share of the rent. He had offered to repaint but obviously has not. They have been there for 2 1/2 years but the walls were grubby within one year. I will be asking my Agent to make some deduction as this is not fair wear and tear. What the outcome will be I am not sure but the stairs go directly off the lounge and re painting is quite a big job. I am waiting to hear as to whether the agent has managed to chase up the full rental payment. Not much fun this renting lark!!