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Original poster

Building regs and planning - windows

21 replies

DoNotDisturb · 19/01/2014 12:24

After many years of saving and debating we're finally at the stage of starting to plan our kitchen conversion (knocking through into kitchen diner) and loft conversion. I've trawled through all these threads and they are a wealth of knowledge but I'm stuck on the issue of windows in the side of the house...

We currently have 3 old sash windows in the kitchen on the side of the house. They are painted shut and probably need replacing. Can I really only put obscured glass non opening windows in to replace them?? Seems unfair since they are currently plain glass and if I took the time to scrape the paint, they'd open.

Same issue with loft conversion. The bathroom will be on the side with a low height wall. Is there no way to allow even a teenie opening in the window for ventilation? There'll be a dormer which will open but id rather have a small window I can leave open all day however the wall height is less than 1.7m so my reading of the legislation is that I can't is there no way around it??

Thanks in advance if anyone can help..

OP posts:

MrsFlorrick · 19/01/2014 12:29

Hi. It's all much better than you think.

The first issue with replacement windows. You replace them however you wish and they do not need to be opaque in any way! They are existing windows. So no problem there.

The loft conversion. You may well be able to have a lower window in the wall. You will need to apply for planning permission and you are very very likely to get it. If you already have windows on lower floors facing the direction of the windows you wish to add to the loft room then anyone living in that direction is already considered over looked.

Who is telling you this rubbish?

MrsFlorrick · 19/01/2014 12:38

Sorry I meant to say that a window over 1.7m floor height doesn't require planning consent.

You will need to apply for consent for your loft conversion at any rate. And for the dormer you're planning.

Can't say whether your kitchen extension requires consent. That depends on where its situated on your plot how big and how close to neighbours.

Get advice on planning Portal.
And get professional advice. Do not let a builder give you "professional" advice on matters of planning and Building Regs as they are NOT qualified. You need a Chartered Building Surveyor.

Original poster

DoNotDisturb · 19/01/2014 14:32

Wow instant response. Thanks mrsflorrick.

The guy drawing the plans is a retired building surveyor but he's very dismissive of my questions and requests so I've started to look into stuff myself. He just said no opening windows on the side so it's really good to know I can potentially put them there as it'll make a real difference to a bathroom I think!

OP posts:

Original poster

DoNotDisturb · 19/01/2014 14:33

Do you know this because it's your job of have you endured some recent building works?

OP posts:

wonkylegs · 19/01/2014 15:27

The guy who is giving you advice
As Mrsflorrick says existing windows as long as they don't have a previous planning condition laid on them from earlier work (which it sounds like they don't ) or are constrained by listed building or conservation area consent (again doesn't sound like it applies) you can replace with whatever you want. You would only have to restrict what you put on this elevation if they are new openings.
Loft
If you are making a new opening in the wall for a window you may need to apply for planning permission ( as its altering the facade) , as a householder you can usually get free or cheap advice on the necessity of this from the on duty planning officer at the council ( it often costs more if your building professional asks as they charge us). You may need this for your dormer anyway.
It's hard to comment without knowing everything / seeing your house / plans - it may have overlooking issues.
Ask what his reasoning is - its the regulations/planning isn't a good enough answer. Ask him to show you what or why.

TeacupDrama · 19/01/2014 15:39

the old sash windows can be replaced like for like or even differently so long as same size (unless your building is listed in which case you will need planning to replace windows but that would definitely normally be like for like so new wooden sash and cash.
you do not generally need planning permission for internal alterations ie to make kitchen diner but alterations have to meet building regulations so you can't have a new bathroom opening off kitchen ( you could of course historically in fact huge numbers of terrace houses did just that and you would not need to alter that)

most of the time you do not need building permission for loft conversion itself but rather that fact that you are altering roofline by placing windows and roof lights these may need to be opaque and one may need to act as fire escape window

the main problems with lofts is building regulations about head heights and staircases

in fact i thought new building regs stated that every room had to have a window that opened wide enough for someone to get through

wonkylegs · 19/01/2014 15:47

Under BR Habitable rooms do have to have an escape window but a bathroom is not considered a habitable room

Original poster

DoNotDisturb · 19/01/2014 16:03

Thanks guys.

I am in a conservation area but not sure this changes anything under these circumstances.

I know I need planning as we're putting a side dormer in to get height for stairs and a back dormer to make a nicer room. So I think it's worth trying to get an opening window in the bathroom as I don't want to be on here in a years time complaining about condensation and damp to pigletjohn The way my guy said it was that all side windows up there had to be obscured and non opening - full stop. I now know this isn't the case so will make him change the plan . There will be a velux but not sure how comfortable I'll feel ha ring that open all the time or how good that would be if it was raining.

Re the kitchen. The alterations are all internal so hopefully no planning. The window sizes will stay the same. They will just be replaced with new windows :)

OP posts:

TeacupDrama · 19/01/2014 16:49

in a conservation area you generally can't change things that can be seen from street so if kitchen windows can be seen may need to replace with windows that are either sash and cash or what is called tilt and turn which look like sash but aren't

wonkylegs · 19/01/2014 17:51

Teacup that's not true. It only applies if you have a specific Article 4 direction applying to the windows. Many conservation areas don't have this. We live in a CA without one and we can change the windows on any facade to whatever we want however the Conservation officer would prefer that they are in keeping.
We have gone for timber double glazing sashes made to replicate the originals and their idiosyncrasies as we think that it would look rubbish and devalue the house to do otherwise, but we could have put in UPVC if we'd wanted to.
Our CA mainly affects demolition and new building, so has limited effect on existing properties, many fall into this category.
Your local Conservation Officer (council) will advise on how it specifically affects your property - I just emailed mine.

MummytoMog · 19/01/2014 18:30

Side dormer? Please make it pretty. Side dormers can look really horrid.

Original poster

DoNotDisturb · 19/01/2014 20:44

Wonky - is the only way to find out about article 4 to speak to the conversation officer?

We're trying to make the side dormer "pretty" as it's more likely to get past the planners. Any tips?

OP posts:

TeacupDrama · 19/01/2014 21:55

OK maybe i'm wrong but I'm in Scotland and rules maybe slightly different so sorry if it was misleading

wonkylegs · 19/01/2014 22:14

No you can see if the CA appraisal for your area is published on the planning website. If it is it might have it in there. TBH a quick email to the CO is the easiest way to get a definitive answer and I generally find that contacting them and having a chat tends to make them more amenable if you do need their help. They are often fonts of useful information.
If you are covered by the CA article 4 for the windows then they will want you to replace like for like which means if they are currently clear glass sashes painted shut you should be able to at least get them refurbished so they open properly, but more likely replacing with matching working clear glass double glazed sashes would be acceptable.

peggyundercrackers · 19/01/2014 23:04

We are in Scotland and live in a CA and wonky is correct - the planning officer told us he couldn't stop us doing what we wanted to with regards our windows but he would rather we did something in keeping with the area. We were already planning to keep to the same style so it wasn't a problem. We also have side windows and they all open with none of them opaque, never heard of that before...

Completely agree with wonky - if you're are doing a lot of work it is worthwhile speaking to your CO and get them on side, they are a mine of info and we found ours really helpful.

MrsFlorrick · 20/01/2014 00:48

Planning Portal website is your friend.

Some local authorities are very helpful and have walk-in surgeries where you can speak to the town planners

Islington has this. I talked to them when we lived there. Current council is Bromley and you can't speak to planning officers direct.

And yes my experience comes from my profession.

MrsFlorrick · 20/01/2014 00:49

And Wonkylegs is spot on

You're an architect, aren't you, Wonkylegs?

MrsFlorrick · 20/01/2014 00:52

Oh and retired surveyor. Was he a Chartered Surveyor or just a "surveyor"?

Anyone and his dog can call themselves a "surveyor" without qualification or a clue. Chartered surveyor is a protected title and requires qualifications and knowledge.

I suspect your draughtsman is a "surveyor". And he doesn't want to answer your questions because he doesn't know.

Get professional advice or in the first instance see if you can speak to a town planner locally

wonkylegs · 20/01/2014 07:27

Yep I'm an architect, and I'm currently refurbishing our recently purchased Victorian house in a Conservation Area so a lot of this is fresh in my mind.

InsertUsernameHere · 20/01/2014 07:44

The guy drawing the plans is a retired building surveyor but he's very dismissive of my questions and requests

This is not going to get any better. Given what you have learnt up thread I would suggest cutting your losses with this chap and seek somebody else. Dismissive while being wrong isn't a combination generally sort after . Yes you will loose money as you have to pay him for what he has done - but it is the cheapest option in the long run. Ideas for making your dormers look pretty? That's what architects are for I'm not one

Lucky escape?

MrsFlorrick · 20/01/2014 13:31

Wonkylegs.

My last house was in an article 4 area in London. In the time I lived there it had changed from just a conservation area to an article 4 area. Found out when I repainted my front door and window frames. Had to apply for consent to change the colour

Current house is listed and 200 years old. All sorts of fun to be had here....

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