Help please, does this look like subsidence??

[kiwidreamer]

* link to thread / photos in CHAT *

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1971585-Does-this-look-like-subsidence?msgid=44454040#prettyPhoto

We were thinking about making an offer on the house we currently rent but now I'm not so sure, I think these cracks might be more than cosmetic. House is a 1960's build, cracks affect the front bedroom only and the outside of the house in the same place. The lounge room underneath the bedroom is fine but the other bedroom window along the same wall is showing a small crack in the corner I noticed this morning when taking pics.

Obviously we will get a full structural survey but this isn't our forever home, we want to return to NZ in a few years and were bummed out by the landlords selling up and very limited options in our catchment. We need to keep saving our extra money for the return to NZ, we can afford a repaint / new soffits / new kitchen / bathroom but I don't want to spend £20k on fixing subsidence!!! But ultimately we want to sell it in a few years or maybe keep for a 5/10yrs as a rental.

I'm itching now with the thought its a massive issue and was wondering if anyone in MNland could advise based on experience.

There is a medium size tree on the road side but I wouldn't have thought its roots extend this far, detached neighbours did have a tree related subsidence and all seems fine for the past 15yrs.

There is only one large crack externally, but quite a number internally in my DS's room.

we are on the Berkshire / Oxfordshire boarder so not a mining issue, there is a largish Cherry Blossom tree on the roadside about 3/4 meters from the house, the attached neighbour has no cracking on their property and they are equal distance from the tree.

any advice would be nice but of course we will get a full survey, I'm just all twitchy today.

I wouldn't be concerned with internal hairline cracks or cracks at the joint of cornicing but cracks through brick are move of a worry.
Good guide on what to look out for here

Try to just wait and see what the survey comes back with, but when you. book in for it make it very clear what your concerns are. We're in the same boat with wanting to buy a house that has worrying (to us as nonexperts) cracks and when we spoke to the surveying company they said they would give us a definitive answer yes or no whether they are subsidence related. We will base our decision to progress on that and will definitely walk away if the s word is mentioned as even a possibility on the survey! I suggest you do the same particularly if you want to sell in a few years. In the meantime it's almost spring and a lot of houses should be coming onto the market over the next few months.

Yes. I think the front wall is moving independently of the side wall.

Have they changed the front downstairs window, or put in/removed a garage or something? Or done a loft conversion? Is there a drain, gulley or soil pipe at the front of the house?

It is particularly worrying that the crack goes through the bricks and not just the mortar joint.

If they had done any of those things, PigletJohn, would that be good or bad? Good because the movement had a known cause or bad because it would be more likely to be a structural problem?

they are potential causes.

e.g. if they put in a bigger window without an adequate lintel, or if they took out a sturdy wooden window (that was holding the wall up) and replaced it with a weedy plastic thing. Or a water leak erodes the ground that the wall is build on and replaces it with soft mud followed by an empty cavity.

they will all need building work but it depends on finding what the cause is.

I'm sure you can find another nice house that isn't falling down.

Thanks, PigletJohn, in testing that those things can cause subsidence as I had thought it was just previous mining activity, trees, and shifting clay/sand soils without proper foundations.

yes, that can happen too. But in that case the whole street, being similar houses of similar age, built with similar techniques and on similar ground, are likely to experience the same effects, and local builders and estate agents will know all about it, as will the neighbours. A 1960's house should have quite reasonable foundations.

to me it does look like there is movement - especially on seeing the cracks around the window. A full structural survey would give you answers but I would be wary. Could be the tree another likely culprit is drains i.e drain collapse. just a thought have any trees been removed relatively recently? that can cause heave. But my feeling is its a drain related issue or as above unsupported lintels that's your problem.

Very difficult to tell from the the pictures you've put up, but it doesn't look like subsidence to me. looks more likely to be lintel failure given the type of cracking in the photos.

A proper survey should give you a better idea though. Damage isn't too severe, and if the cause is lintel failure it wouldn't be that expensive a fix.

No disrespect to anyone here, but you need to get proper independent advice as opposed to random people on t'intenet looking at a few snaps.

Those cracks, from what I can see, need explaining. They don't look absolutely awful but don't go ahead blind.
All houses will have their share of minor cracks - all houses move at some point.
I would be asking -
How long have they been there?
Have they got worse?
Are they still getting worse?
Do all houses on the street show similar movement cracks?
Our house has a couple of cracks through bricks - but they have been there since anyone can remember, and have not got worse at all. They can all be explained.
You don't know what's going on with your house so find out rather than guessing. That's what I'd do!

Because we've been living in the house for the past five years I can say the cracks have gotten much worse, the brick crack was only noticed in the past 6mths or so and wasn't there before, the internal cracking is getting worse too.

I actually think there might be something in the Lintel discussion, it looks like they have tried to reinforce the window internally with a large plank of wood across the top of the window.

We get the AIP today (all going to plan) and then will make a lowish offer tomorrow and then get that survey done. I hate the thought of wasting £400 already knowing there are not insignificant issues to attend to but we just love living here, love our neighbours, its in catchment, house will look great with a bit of modernising and a full internal paint job.

your friendly local builder (if good) will instantly recognise a droopy lintel problem, and know how to fix it.