Total Bathroom Replacement - can I please have your advice (technical and style)

[wetaugust]

Right – that’s me finished with the mastic gun – again!! I’ve had enough! It's time for action.

This will be long - sorry.

I need to replace this bathroom but would like to have your advice please.

It’s 21 years old and a coloured suite with horrible tiles that date it to late 1980s.

The taps have corroded, the basin has a crack in it, the big mirror tiled into the wall has mildewed behind it so is virtually opaque and I’ve forgotten how many times I have re-mastic’ed the bath seal. The shower is also on the way out and the bath plug leaks.

It has no light fitting – just a bare bulb as the ceiling needs replacing too. The floor is uneven where the previous owner lifted the boards to install central heating and put them down again really badly. At the moment it’s tiled wall to ceiling on plasterboard so the walls and ceiling would have to be replaced, as well as the floorboards.

Q: (Please tell me that) it’s definitely past its sell by date – isn’t it?

It’s very small, barely large enough for full size 1700mm bath, toilet and hand basin – so shower cubicle not possible. I’m thinking of a P shaped bath but that would take up floor space that the laundry basket sits in.

Q: Is a P-shaped bath worth losing floor space to in a very small bathroom?

I’m fed up replacing the electric shower over the bath every couple of years (DCs who love long lingering showers turn the bathroom into rain forest which eventually kills the shower). I don’t want to have an electric shower on the wall again and am considering mixer shower where there is just a bar with temperature controls on the bathroom wall. I’ve checked that my hot water system can support this option (I have a hot water cylinder and immersion heater in the airing cupboard, cold water tank in the loft and non-combi gas boiler

Q: Are these mixer showers any good?

Q: Would I have to make sure I put the immersion heater on before having a shower so the water would be hot?

Q: Shower curtain or shower panel? If panel should it be single large wall (which I might find claustrophobic when using the bath) or 4- part fold-back?

Q: Should I go for separate bath taps for H & C or one of those taps where there look like there are 2 taps but it comes out of a is a single mixer?

Thinking of putting in recessed downlighters (obviously bathroom-safe ones).

Q: What are the pros and cons of using these and how many would I need in a small bathroom. Would 6 be overkill?

I don’t want floor to ceiling tiled walls this time. The walls (plasterboard) will have to come down anyway.

Q: Has anyone used alternatives to tiles such as board?

I’m going to have an extraction fan (PigletJohn has told me which one) that will vent out through the roof void above the bathroom.

Q: Should this fan come on every time someone switches on the shower? Is that possible or do I have to have the fan coming on when the light is switched on or door opened (I hate these in hotel rooms as the noise runs on for a long time afterwards).

Flooring. I have no idea what to use. I’m terrified of tiles or lino as am concerned they will be slippy. Not keen on wood due to it being a small room and being a bathroom I may need to lift the floorboards at some point to get to the pipes underneath.

Q: What flooring do you consider looks good and is practical in a bathroom.

I have no storage in the bathroom as it’s so small. Am considering one of those vanity units that has the sink built into it and a cupboard underneath.

Q: Will the vanity unit solution eventually look dated?

I was told by a carpenter who was working on my house that a total replacement would take about 3 weeks!!!!!

Q: Is he having a laugh?

Sorry for the length of this but I am absolutely clueless when it comes to bathrooms so any advice would be very welcome.

Thank you

Can't answer everything but we replaced a small bathroom recently, so here goes.

Recessed lights, we had 4, perfectly fine as new energy saving spots are now much brighter than they used to be.

We have a mixer shower (though also need a pump as pressure is terrible. It's great. I don't use the immersion unless it gets v heavy use e.g.guests. I just have hot water on timer and use from the tank.

We replaced all tiles with tiles around bath and shower only with a glass splash back over the sink. Left plaster board on other walls and chose good quality bathroom paint. It's worn fine.

We have a square sink set into a wood veneer cabinet. It looks anything but dated! There are some really nice units around.

We put down vinyl on the floor. Waterproof and easy to clean.

It took our builder nearly 2 weeks. Main difficulty was it is a small space so only he could work in there. We had to wait for skim plaster to dry also. Bathroom was useable for most of this time, only 2 days without bath.

Hope that helps! It was quite fun doing everything from scratch.

That helps a lot thank you Perspective

I didn't think of glass splashbacks - that's a good idea.

I can see now why it will take so long - confined space and plastering, but useful to know the room was useable for most of the time.

Thank you.

Yes ! It's overdue a change !!!! As you describe it as a small bathroom - have you considered changing it into a shower room instead ?! As it sounds like your family like the shower ?! You could have a great size shower and storage too this way ?!? I have found that underfloor heating is lovely in a bathroom ( as you walk about barefoot in there ! ) and heated towel rails are also a little luxury that is a great touch ! Your installer will be best to offer advice on how many lights are needed ! You can get extractors that have a light in specifically designed for use in a shower to whisk the steam away ( perhaps ask PJ if what you've already discussed would still be suitable if you changed to a shower room) you can sometimes line the floor and tile - and include and inspection area that is also tiled and that can be removed easily for if you need to get to the heating pipes etc . Mermaid boards in a shower are easy to keep clean ( no grout !) and then you can have anything you fancy in the bathroom , T&G or tiles or glass panels etc on the walls... Exciting times ! Enjoy it !!!

God it sounds awful. Rip it out and start again.

My three top tips:
Make sure you can turn the shower on and off without getting deluged by cold water. The shower controls should not be directly under the shower head for this, they should be to one side. Just as easy as putting them under the shower head but you do need to stand over the plumber to make sure they don't 'forget'. Drives me nuts when you go to a posh hotel and the start of your fabulous monsoon shower experience is a freezing cold monsoon shower. Definitely a screen not a curtain by the way, curtains cling and are weird. I have a p-shaped bath with shower over it, good for the teenagers who need a bit more room. If you get one of these make sure you get the shower door that swings out, not one that's fixed, or cleaning the bath is a faff.

If you have a mirror flat against the wall add a mirror demister behind it that's connected to the light switch. Then after your shower your mirror isn't all misty. A small thing but very nice and really not expensive.

To light a mirror well enough to put on makeup you need 3 or four lights for it: one or two overhead in the ceiling halfway between the top of your head and the wall with the mirror so it lights down your face; two on either side of the mirror at exactly the height of your face. Your eyeliner will be perfect.

I wish I used eyeliner

Thank you both for your suggestions. I like the idea of boarding rather than tiles and agree it would be sensible to put the shower controls elsewhere than under the shower head.

I absolutely loathe showers - work of the Devil so could not rip out bath and go for shower enclosure.

The DC however adore the shower

But I'll still be here after they've left home

Ah ! Ok ! Nice bath and maybe a combination of bright lighting and a dimmer one for leisurely soaks ?!!

Am liking the idea of leisurely soaks

I suggest spots (not too many 6 sounds a lot) and wall lights either side of the mirror. Put them on separate circuits (so you operate them separately) and put both circuits on dimmers.

Thanks - you're right 6 spots are too many. Saw a designer today and we've settled for 4.

But the cost is double what I thought with installation coming in at 2.8 x the cost of the fittings (which themselves are in the 4 figure number range)

Had set aside about £6K but that's nowhere near the estimate.

Very

I think I might be you- same predicament, same size room, same total shock at price (and I've been dragging myself about getting quotes for nearly two years now- admittedly had a baby in-between, which slowed me down a bit). My biggest problem is getting a builder to do it, nobody seems to want the work.
wet I reckon the crazy high cost means we might as well chuck in the luxury touches, since its certainly not getting done again any time soon!

The big chains have installers who will actually do it - so that's not a problem.

And there is more building work than strict installation of just bathroom fittings.

What's annoying is that I'm not going for anything fancy. Just bog standard modern bathroom.

I do agree that it's worth doing 'properly'. The last bathroom has lasted over 20 years, so I've had my money's worth.

I'm like you - have been putting it off for years but I've reached the point where I can't ignore it any longer.

Going to try Wickes, B&Q, and a couple of independants - then bite the bullet.

We redid the bathroom in our last house - sky blue walls, pink suite & pine furniture - it was 8' & 6' so not big. We used Ideal Standard products

www.ideal-standard.co.uk/collection/concept-space_3218.html

but sourced them on the internet and found them cheaper. We had a P shaped, slightly shorter bath so that we could reach over and shut the window which was beside it - the narrow end meant we didn't have to get in the bath to get to the window! We also had their fitted units for the basin and loo and they were great. We had a mixer shower but as we had a shower downstairs didn't use it much but you can get folding panels which I think are better than a curtain - memories of being attacked by cold damp curtains, shudder!

Get yourself some squared paper and cut loo, basin, bath, cupboards shapes to scale and play about there - maybe think about having the door open into the corridor rather than into the bathroom. I second underfloor heating (ours was electric and we installed it apart from the last bit where the electrician connected and checked it) as it's lovely to stand on and not having a radiator gives extra wall space. When it comes to decoration keep it plain - we had off white walls and floor tiles, minimum number of white wall tiles with a border and light wood slatted blind - and added colour with towels, bath mats and a couple of bright pictures. We had four spots on a dimmer, plus an overhead mirror and it was plenty bright enough.

Where we are now (rented) has panels of something rather than tiles and they are nice and easy to clean with no greying grout!

Bit of an essay, but it is possible to have a luxurious small space, it just requires more thought! Enjoy the transformation.

also just done the same on our rental - it has a small bathroom of the type you describe, and had a very 70s pink suite. It was mucky and the toilet didn't flush so it was a fair no-brainer to replace.

don't think frostyfingers is our tenant :-) but we covered over pink 70s tiles with plastic panels. The tiles were solidly fixed but full of holes from where various things had been attached, and of course looked awful. The panels create a wall at the head of the bath and run right round the bath and to the sink. As noted, no grout to clean and the panels look good, and (we hope) do the job! Loads of sealant still needed and that takes time to dry.

added a bath screen too. Didn't fit a vanity unit but it is possible, make sure the arrangement won't get impossible to clean. Standard bath, well-supported beneath (Bricks and expanding foam as well as the legs). P-shaped expensive and use too much space.

total cost of materials was about £800 - complete new suite, panels, piping, taps, waste, vinyl floor with hardboard beneath) towel rail, toilet roll holder etc and paint. Also two new light fittings and extractor fan. The fan runs whenever the light is on (so doesn't annoy by going on forever), the bathroom has a window too.

2 lights is plenty, we used the Wilkinson bathroom ones. Quite bright enough.

took about 2 person weeks, himself is a competent DIY-er. Property was empty at the time.

all white and grey, again with the idea that tenant can add whatever mats/towels they like to suit.

Q: Is a P-shaped bath worth losing floor space to in a very small bathroom?

No, IMO. If you are having a full sized bath that is plenty of space to shower in without needing a P shape.

I’m fed up replacing the electric shower over the bath every couple of years (DCs who love long lingering showers turn the bathroom into rain forest which eventually kills the shower). I don’t want to have an electric shower on the wall again and am considering mixer shower where there is just a bar with temperature controls on the bathroom wall. I’ve checked that my hot water system can support this option (I have a hot water cylinder and immersion heater in the airing cupboard, cold water tank in the loft and non-combi gas boiler

Q: Are these mixer showers any good?

Yes. But I'm afraid you get what you pay for in terms of the mixer taps - more expensive (usually German brands) = more reliable. Also, check you have enough water pressure in your bathroom (should be ok).

Q: Would I have to make sure I put the immersion heater on before having a shower so the water would be hot?

No. If you have a hot water tank, and the immersion heater is set to keep that hot, then you can have a hot shower any time until the hot water tank is empty. (I think - might be best to ask PigletJohn).

Q: Shower curtain or shower panel? If panel should it be single large wall (which I might find claustrophobic when using the bath) or 4- part fold-back?

Panel. You can get a 2 piece panel which folds in half, neater than a 4 piece fold and less claustrophobic than a single large one.

Q: Should I go for separate bath taps for H & C or one of those taps where there look like there are 2 taps but it comes out of a is a single mixer?

I prefer a single mixer tap, however they are more of a pain to fix if they go wrong. Again, you get what you pay for in terms of reliability.

Thinking of putting in recessed downlighters (obviously bathroom-safe ones).

Q: What are the pros and cons of using these and how many would I need in a small bathroom. Would 6 be overkill?

We have 9 in a medium sized bathroom and it's way too bright. I'd go for 4. I think they're the best solution for bathrooms esp if the ceiling isn't high.

I don’t want floor to ceiling tiled walls this time. The walls (plasterboard) will have to come down anyway.

Q: Has anyone used alternatives to tiles such as board?

You don't need tiles except for round the bath/shower and a splashback behind the sink. You can get boards for round the bath/shower but I haven't used them. Advantage is that they don't have grout to leak or get grubby (though there is still sealant round the edges), downside is there is less choice of finish etc.

I recommend you put an alcove into the wall round the bath if you possibly can, to have your shampoo etc in.

I’m going to have an extraction fan (PigletJohn has told me which one) that will vent out through the roof void above the bathroom.

Q: Should this fan come on every time someone switches on the shower? Is that possible or do I have to have the fan coming on when the light is switched on or door opened (I hate these in hotel rooms as the noise runs on for a long time afterwards).

I don't think it can be connected to the shower. However what you can do (what we have) is have it connected to the light, BUT with a separate switch so you can switch it on and off separately any time you want to.

Q: Flooring. I have no idea what to use. I’m terrified of tiles or lino as am concerned they will be slippy. Not keen on wood due to it being a small room and being a bathroom I may need to lift the floorboards at some point to get to the pipes underneath.

What flooring do you consider looks good and is practical in a bathroom.

Lino, vinyl and tiles are available in non slip surface. Tiles are colder, but arguably harder wearing. Lino and vinyl you need a really good fitter and a properly smooth surface underneath. Tiles you need a good tiler. I wouldn't recommend wood. Use grey grout not white.

I have no storage in the bathroom as it’s so small. Am considering one of those vanity units that has the sink built into it and a cupboard underneath.

Q: Will the vanity unit solution eventually look dated?

Possibly, but you do need storage so where else are you going to put it?

I was told by a carpenter who was working on my house that a total replacement would take about 3 weeks!!!!!

Q: Is he having a laugh?

3 weeks sounds about right to me

It should be perfectly possible to get a new bathroom done for £6k if you don't go top end on everything

However that excludes the cost of the new ceiling (I'm not sure how much that would be)

wetaugust .. it really shouldn't cost more than £6k. That's what we paid for a complete overhaul.

Bath and seperate shower (with fake wall in between) ... wall taken out... became Pshaped bath with shower over. Taps moved and now come out the wall... love it. New spotlights with eco bulbs.
Toilet moved to different position and is a behind the wall/unit one. Sink different place totally and it rests on units. Fitted units and cupboards all round. Ladder radiator. Plastered. Karndean floor. Lovely tiles. It bears no resemblance to what we had before and we paid £6K and I love it.

Special - no, we're not! That bathroom was our last owned house which we did up and sold on - our nice rental house is all in very good taste and naicely done, no pink bathrooms here (the shower room in our house had a grey sink and loo - truly grim colour for a shower room!)

Thank you all very much for taking the time to respond. You've all given me some excellent ideas and sound advice.

The mist is starting to clear and I've decided (with your help)

White - suite and wall tiles. Bathroom should last for many years so the colour can be changed if necessary by painting non-tiled walls and by change of accessory colour.

Not have a P shape. Have checked and i's too wide for the small room. I'd lose all the storage space I currently have.

Investigate this humidity controlled extractor fan - sounds a brilliant idea. At the very least to have a manual override

Go for German taps if affordable

Shower screen - one or 2 panel. The more panels the more difficult it is to keep them aligned so the water doesn't pour down outside of bath.

Vinyl floor - in case I need to access underfloor in the future

4 spots

Will have vanity unit for storage

Mirror in old fashioned wooden frame hung on the wall. If it gets mildewed (like the current one) I'll just bin it.

Won't use boards instead of tiles as every inch is precious and I would actually lose more (albeit very small amount) of space using boards and the configuraion around the bath would be difficult (expensive_ with boards as it has a shelf that would need to be covered.

I agree that £6K should be more than enough - that's what my generous 'should cost' model is telling me.

I think the reason the first quote is so high is that they've used a computer-generated pick list to build up the cost. Homebase used the same technique when they gave me an outrageous quotation for my kitchen. When I got an independant installer on the ground and he refined requiremnet the cost was significant cheaper.

Well that's my challenge - a bathroom that comes in at £6K.

Thank you again for your advice. It's really helpful.

good luck! Have a look at the recent "bathrooms lessons learned" thread, lots of good tips on there.

Will do -thanks