unusual 'problem' regarding new house sale?

[soldasseen]

We are buying a new house, the selling of the house is not simple and quiet horrible circumstances.

We have been waiting for the inventory for the new house and got an email from our solicitor today:

"They do not propose to send sellers property information forms and fixtures and fittings form as they say the property is sold as seen as the sellers have no personal knowledge of the property. They propose for the current occupiers to complete the forms however as they are not the sellers these could not be relied upon."

Is this a normal response? what does sold as seen mean? When we last saw it the house was full of furniture and beds etc - does it mean we get all of that?
We are concerned about this because if there is no fixture and fittings list, then what if when we get the keys they have gutted the place? we would have no come back.

Can anyone advise?

When I bought a repossessed house the seller was the bank that had taken repossession. Therefore all the questions in the sellers questionnaire came back 'Not known' - against almost every question.

I would not accept the questionnaire being filled out by the current occupiers if they are not the owners. The whole point if the form is that you have legal comeback if they say something and then do something else e.g. say they'll leave something and then take it.

You have no legal comeback at all against the current occupier so it's pretty worthless.

What does your solicitor say? You are entitled to vacant and empty posession - which means no furniture and no people in it, unless agreed.
What are the sellers intending to do? Visit when the current occupiers have left or will they never go there?
How about being there when the current occupiers do the forms? and then taking up any issues with the owners.

I would view the house again and make a note of anything you were particularly hoping they would leave or expect them to leave. Then go back and ask them to check with the occupiers and confirm that those items will be left as part of the transaction. Your solicitor may be able to advise on how better to handle it though.

I've sold two houses 'as seen'. It means u didn't have to drive over and get the info (former rental properties)

Go back, take photos. Relax.

the worry is that the house is occupied by a family and the grandmother. The house is mostly owned by the son in law of the grandmother. The GMs daughter died before she could divorce the husband ( son in law)

He , from what we can work out and have heard, is selling the house from underneath them all. the GM who is about 80 is being forced from her home of a long number of years because the son in law wants to sell.

From what we know the grandmother ploughed a lot of money into the house, large extension etc. she then signed it over to her daughter who married son in law. she then became terminally ill and tried to divorce husband but died before she could. so he has inherited the house and wants everyone out so he can have the money.

So i guess our worry is that they may take revenge, which i can totally understand - being angry at being forced from their homes, and wreck the place. you can never predict how people may act ( you know like " i paid for the kitchen draws they are coming with me" type thing!

how do we protect ourselves so that things you would expect, kitchen, bathroom suite, multifuel, sheds, oil fired central heating boiler etc are left in the property and the the condition that we viewing it in? i guess is what we are basically what we are asking!

The repossed house that I mentioned (above) that I'd bought was essentially 'as seen' as the former owner was totally out of the picture.

When I viewed the property it had a garden shed,

Between exchanging and completing the former owner arrived with a low loader and took the shed away.

I complained to the the estate agent and my solicitor demanded that the shed was returned or I was compensated for the loss of something that would have been included as belonging to the property under the 'as seen' terms - as we didb't have a seller's list of what was to be left behind.

Eventually the bank that owned the property knocked £500 off the price so I could afford to buy a replacement shed.

I'm just recounting this as an example of the sort of the problems that can arise when it's not clear in the contract what is being left behind and what is being taken.

When I was selling a house I once had a letter from the potential buyer's solicitor asking me to confirm I would be leaving certain shrubs that were growing in the garden (cordyline australis etc). WTF! They had been planted. They were not in containers!.

I can see no good reason at all why the seller in your situation cannot complete the seller's documents. All personal belongings will be taken by the existing tenants. All fixtures and fittings should beleft unless specifically stated otherwise.

So he's been a jery or lazy or a lazy jerk.

If she (GM) damages the proprty then he's have to claim it from his insurance as the damage occurred prior to your ownership. If you even suspect this may happen - I'd walk away now.

I would get it specifically written into your contract anything you despaertaely want to keep, and that it's sold 'as seen' (take pictures) and that all fixtures and fittings are included.

Better still I'd walk away and find another house as this one has the potential to cause a lot of problems.

"I can see no good reason at all why the seller in your situation cannot complete the seller's documents. All personal belongings will be taken by the existing tenants. All fixtures and fittings should beleft unless specifically stated otherwise."

the reason he can not complete the sellers documents is because the house was left to him as inheritance, from his wife. i am not even sure he has ever set foot in the property!

I'd be more worried that the occupants would refuse to leave. Not sure if they would be regarded as sitting tenants - has your lawyer investigated this?

Sold

Selling a house is 'business'. Even if it was his dead wife's former home.

There is no room whatsoever for sentamentality or squeamishness when it comes to selling a house.

He could even ask the estate agent to fill it in for him and he could then sign it.

Personally I would not buy a house in thesecircumstances as it could be a huge hassle with the potential to delay completion if the GM & co refuse to move. How would that leave you chain-wise?

I'd expect quite a discount to make this attractive to me.

Couldn't the GM even challenge the daughter's will as she would appear to have been dependant on her daughter?

wet i agree completely!

We are not part of a chain, which is why he chose us rather then another buyer because we were able to move quickly. Delays are no problem to us, we are not in any rush although he apparently is!

Well I hope you've thought out all the potential problems that may arise and that you're getting a whopping discount to make it all worthwhile.

I certainly wouldn't buy a repossessed house again. It was too much hassle.

aside from the worry of them wrecking the place, which we hope to avoid by viewing the property and checking that is is empty and complete before we exchange and complete.

What other problems should be expect? discount is doubtful, house was already dropped by 50k, why else could we expect a discount?

How invested are you? Have you already spent out on surveys etc. I'd walk away if you can afford to having strung the bugger along for as long as possible.
Horrid situation.

Why else could er expect a discount?

Because as chainless purchasers in this market, you are as rare as rocking horse poo so should be able to negoiate one of the best deals you'll ever make in your house-purchsing life-time.

They could refuse to move - LL would then have to move to evict which will take weeks/months to resolve. The advice they will receive from housing charities is probably to sit tight anyway.

The could damge the property - as discussed above.

Hostility from the neighbours towards you.

Revenge on you once you've moved in (unlikely from an 80 year old)

Having to live with the fact that you were complicit with him in getting the old dear removed from her house (but that's sentamentality which wouldn't bother some buyers)

i think we will investigate a better deal but i am not hopefully that we would get one.

regarding them refusing to move, we are not in a rush to move so a delay to us is not a problem.

damage to property is hopefully something that we can avoid.

hostility from neighbours would not really bother us, we are detached and far enough away that i doubt we would even see them. and we are not very social

revenge is think is quiet unlikely plus we have 2 big dogs! and our arguement is not with us, and they were very friendly when we viewed.

of course it is not nice that an old lady has had to move. As i said if there was not a clause on the house we was considering allowing her to stay.

although the reasons above are worth mentioning to our solicitor, i am not sure if the old lady holds stakes in the house and so will get a share and a say in what price it goes for or not. of course it is worth a mention

Sorry but I think you'd have to be extremely heartless to buy this house under those circumstances. Does the plight of the grandmother not concern you at all?

oh get stuffed noarmani and read the thread

...plus the fact that there would be a lot of people who simply couldn't bring themselves to have a part in that transaction. I couldn't live with myself, buying a house in those circumstances!

Honestly NOT having a go as others have said, it SHOULD be a business transaction, no room for sentimentality... But lots of people woukdbt touch it, ergo you are even rarer as buyers.

I'd play REAL hardball - get a huge discount and maybe a bit of satisfaction that SIL gets less for his nastily-acquired house!

talkative, as i said if we could let her stay in 'her' part of the house we would but clauses do not allow it.

real hard ball may in fact affect her even more because i am not sure how/ if she has any stake in the property and so unsure if she would get any proceeds from house. hard ball may = less money to lady :(

What is the clause preventing you allowing her to stay?

many buyers would not have found out as much as we have. due to certain connections ( all above board!! ) we have found out more then normal buys would. A normal buyer would not probably have found out about the lady having to leave and why she has to leave. or about the sellers connection to the lady.

there is a clause stating that the house/ that particular part of the house can only be occupied by members of the owners family.

I have read the thread. I think you should walk away