Tenants reporting really bad condensation; what can I do?

[MumOfTheMoos]

They first reported this at the start of Autumn, having been in the flat since May. I got them a dehumidifier but told them all the things they needed to do to avoid condensation (like not leaving clothes out to dry, opening windows etc).

Apparently they have been doing all of this, cleaning the walls but everything is going mouldy and the dehumidifier is on 24/7 and they're desperate.

I'm going to try and find so done to go in and have a look to see if there is anything that I can do; they've asked me to paint the walls with special anti fungicide paint.

Thing is there was no evidence of damp when we bought the place and all through last winter when it was either being done up or waiting for a tenant. Originally I was going to sell the place on having done it up (beautifully by the way) but now, I'm really keen to keep on renting it out but don't wasn't a mouldy flat.

So, my questions are:

1. is there anything that could be causing this excessive condensation that I can do something about
2. what are their and my rights re liability for it. My understanding is that I am not liable for damage as it is their actions that are causing the condensation but what I really want is happy tenants and a dry warm flat.

Extractor fan in the bathroom isn't a guarantee that no mold will grow. At our last rented property, the extractor fan was on all day by the end because it just didn't help. The ceiling and walls would regrow mold constantly. Also had double glazing but poorly fitted so mold grew up the walls next to them even with wiping the windows. House aired daily. No clothes dried inside other than tumble dryer.

We weren't as thick as mince and we still got mold.

Also wrt tumble drier- yes not all clothing can go in them- you have given them a dehumidifier- this is the best thing i have found for drying my washing in bad weather. Tell them to put it in the smallest room (even a tall cupboard- the smaller space the better)with clothes on an airer and close the door. It takes longer than tumbr dryer but is cheaper to dry 1 load and nothing shrinks.

they could also dry washing outside - not over the last week or so obviously but winter does not mean no outside drying. Many people don't realise this.

some properties are more mould prone than others, but the OPs house doesn't sound one of them.

Agree with ragusa..tenants may not be liable. From personal experience we had a landlord who assumed that the awful mold problem we had was down to us. Of course I was ventilating and doing all the things I should be doing, we had a baby and apart from my obvious concerns about health, there was mold appearing everywhere, clothes, shoes, the base of our bed..oh and a playpen that cost 90pounds! Point is I was pretty pissed off my landlord would actually think I didn't care about our health or our belonging. .(hey lets just not bother opening windows etc..who cares if all our things have mold growing on them, not to mention the smell if anyone comes to the house!!) Anyway turned out it was structural. .neighbour was having same problem. Damp is such a horrible thing, I hope you get to the bottom of it, for your sake and your tenants. Good luck!

We run our dehumidifier in the bathroom and dry our washing in the bathroom too - we can normally dry a load overnight. However, you do need to regularly clean the filter on the dehumidifier otherwise the dust on it stops the intake of air so the air isn't dried out... Are they really running it all of the time?

Mistlethrush- just from a safety point of view- is your dehumidifier one that can be run in the bathroom? I assume you have to plug it in outside of the bathroom and close the door on the cable?

We are in a rented property and it has horrendous condensation. The landlord kept asking us to open the windows for at least 1 hr everyday and we use the washing machine to dry clothes. Turns out the windows are shot and the seal of the double glazing is broken so the windows let in damp.

We had the same problem as Susyb. We had a newborn and everything, including Moses basket, got covered in mould.

The letting agent, instead of offering any real help, kept sending us 'How to avoid condensation' leaflets. Incredibly patronising.

It was caused by rising damp which we told them but they still didn't do anything so instead of getting environmental health involved we figured it would be less hassle for us to just move.

I'm only telling you this to warn you that if this is a structural problem and you're acting patronising and accusing the tenants you might end up with a bad reputation and might find it difficult to find new tenants.

There's a big crack under the bathroom door so that the cable fits very easily

They didn't believe we were airing the place and kept saying but this has never happened before implying we have been lying about keeping the windows open.

Typically the causes of condensation are to do with ventilation and insulation. In an older property it is likely that there are deficits in both of these. Get expert advice about how to improve both. You will have the same issues with any tenants coming in.

I think they are entitled to dry their clothes out rather than use the tumble dryer.
If they do that, use the humidifier and open windows for 5 mins a day there should be no damp.

We had this problem with our last lot of tenants. We had never had the problem before in 8 years of renting, and no other flats in the block had damp problems. The agents went round frequently, and said that the tenants never opened the windows, even in summer, had blocked up the chimney and sealed up the air vents. They dried all their clothes over an airer and had the heating on for one hour a day.

You do need (obviously) to rule out any structural issues/rising damp etc, but I don't think it would be an issue to ask them about ventilating the flat. We supplied our tenants with a dehumidifier.

ahh- no worries then mistlethrush

I have lived in a few flats, generally ones with rubbish heating (1 storage heater in 1 room but 3 rooms and a big hall in the flat) or appalling windows (those old aluminium ones - we even had one that filled up with water between the 2 panes), uninsulated walls in old buildings are awful. We did our laundry at the launderette so it was dry when it came back (ruined most of our clothes but we couldn't have damp stuff around and to be honest I think it is a bit unfair to think they should tumble dry everything - do you put all your things in the drier? and do you run in and out to put your washing on the line outside in the winter when you are at work during the day? I think in the real world a lot of people will have some things that will have to be dried out somewhere on an airer and towels etc), other flats in the block not putting heating on meant most of the building was cold and the walls never warmed up in the building, old fireplaces and airbricks had been blocked up by property developers who didn't actually know what they were doing when they bought the flat to then rent out and so on. The classic response is to assume it is the tenants and yes it might well be but if this is the first time you have rented it out then it could easily be a problem with the building.

Thanks for your responses everyone. To be honest I'd prefer if there was something structural because then I could fix it - I'm feeling a bit 'aargh' because all I can go on is what they're telling me, I can't actually see them opening the windows, heating it properly etc, etc.

I know I can't do a spot check and that's not my style, I believe fully in the concept of peaceful enjoyment. And that's what I want them to have, as I would not renew the lease on a mouldy flat. If we can't fix it we will probably just sell it.

I've sent them a leaflet on dealing with condensation and I've asked them to ask if the neighbours have the same problem. I'm also going to get someone from a property maintenance company to go around and take a look. If there's nothing obvious I can do structurally then I will have an extractor fan fitted in the kitchen and also I'm quite interested in getting vents for the double glazing retro fitted as someone else has suggested.

I'm just a bit shocked that it's as bad as they say it is. The flag is purpose built and around 50 years old and we did a lovely job of doing it up, new everything - it should be a lovely place to live in.

You sound like a very decent responsible landlady..if only all landlords had your approach! Hope everything works out :-)

When we had our cavity wall insulation done we were really worried about how it would affect the building. The same year we did that we had double glazing fitted too. When we spoke to the company about it they said to ask all the neighbours who had had it done already and find out if any problems, they also said to make sure airbricks are kept as vents (so we do get draughts because we have them open) and not to block up fires or take out chimneys. Houses nowadays are virtually completely sealed and it just doesn't work. I would expect it is double glazing related to be honest as well as them possibly not opening windows sufficiently (if they are out at work during the day they may not be able to depending on hours they are out etc?) All our double glazing can be locked on a ventilation setting, are you sure yours doesn't have this already? it could be that they just need to be told how to use it - I thought it was standard on double glazing now. You just open it very slightly and lock it (by slightly I mean just mms so you can't see the gap in a sense, it is still within the frame but it allows air to enter and when locked in this position it is still secure)

You sound like a very decent responsible landlady..if only all landlords had your approach! Hope everything works out :-)

I think the "thick as mince" comment is a bit patronising!
dh and I live in a 1 bed flat with wooden frame windows and storage heating. We have no choice but to dry our clothes on an airer (which takes ages) but we do open the windows as often as we can, providing it's not freezing outside! We have terrible condensation most of the time, and various patches of mould around the flat.
I'd be interested to hear as landlords what you would expect of us and what we could expect of you? I know deep down that the windows need replacing, along with the avocado bathroom suite, but I just can't see that happening!

PotatoPolly - just because the windows have wooden frames doesn't mean they need replacing. Similarly, an avacado suite might not be to your taste, but that does not mean that it needs to be replaced if it is still functional. You have a condenstation problem because you are drying your clothes inside and not taking the water out in anyway.

go through the thread and make a tick list to take to the flat when you go round.

the windows do need replacing, you can see the frame rotting on the outside and when you open the windows you can see it too.
In terms of the bathroom the toilet flush has just broken, the taps leak and the bolts that hold the toilet in place are so old they no longer have a thread on them!
We have nowhere else to dry our clothes so it has to be inside but I will continue to open the windows as much as possible to help get rid of the water.

I would ask the neighbours if they had a damp problem too - this will give you some idea if it is particular to your flat or a block-wide problem. We now live in our flat, and have had no sign of mould or damp, as we are heating and ventilating it properly. One of our tenants had the cheek to ask us to replace 50 pairs of shoes which had gone mouldy when they were left in a cupboard. We did what we could to help - we replaced the boiler, as they said the flat was always cold (yes, because they didn't use the heating... ), fitted an automatic extractor fan in both bathrooms, as they seemed incapable of turning it on when they had a shower, got the agent to send a specialist round to look at the damp...

Perhaps it would be worth getting them a 2nd dehumidifier immediately whilst you wait and work out what the problem is? Ours was set to come on automatically if the moisture got to a certain level, also are they emptying it straight away?

So difficult to know when you're not living there, great that you are such a reasonalble LL though.