Insulating Victorian Terrace and Wood Burning Stove

[ZaraW]

Hi, just writing to find out other peoples' experiences with Insulation and wood burning stoves..........I have a max budge of 10K to spend which I hope will cut down my energy bills especially as they keep on rising.

Just moved into a 3 bed Victorian Terrace with the attic converted into a bedroom. What is the best way to go internal or external insulation and does it really make a big difference in your energy bills being reduced? How much disruption is involved in internal insulation?

Secondly, am thinking of wood burning stove will have to be multi fuel I guess as we are in a smoke restricted area. This is for money saving purposes only. Is it worth it? I've done a bit of research and some people say yes whilst others say no.

TIA

I am having similar dilemmas over my 1930s property, so really interested in answers to this thread.

I have just put in a multifuel stove, and I absolutely love it. You can get Defra-approved stoves for smoke-restricted areas. It's too early to say whether it will reduce my energy bills drastically, but I am finding that in the evenings I'm using it to heat the downstairs of my house and leaving the heating off, so I am hopeful it will make a difference.

I ruled out internal insulation because I didn't want the disruption to every room, and I also don't have the space that I can afford to lose 10cm off every wall. However, if your house is bigger, it might be more feasible.

So I'm looking at external insulation. One consideration is that the outside of my house isn't in a good state - it needs repointing, which would cost me £2,000-£3,000 total. If I had external insulation, I wouldn't need to do this job. And while the cost of that insulation is pretty high still - around £12,000 - I have found that you can get help under the Green Deal, which brings it down to a more reasonable price. Around half the cost is paid for you. Half of the amount you pay is a loan that goes on your fuel bills so you notice no difference in your outgoings, meaning that you front up a quarter of the cash. In my case, that means it would 'cost' £3,000-£4,000 up front, roughly the same as repointing with the added benefit that I would get reduced fuel bills. So I am seriously considering it as an option, though I do feel nervous about doing something that isn't yet 'standard' practice.

struggling 100 thanks, my rooms are tiny as well so I couldn't really afford to lose the space either. Thinking about it in the living room the previous vendor left some insulation on there its about 0.5 inches kind of spongy can't remember what it is called. My surveyor was impressed though I can't feel it making much of a difference so it must have been really bad before.

That's good to know about the stove surely it will save you money. I was looking at a 4KW stove is yours more powerful to heat all the downstairs?

I'm in a victorian terraced cottage and we are getting the Clearview Pioneer multi fuel stove which is fine for smoke free zones. I think a stove will really warm the room whereas central heating in these old houses just seem to take the edge of the cold...we can't wait until we have ours installed. Have you got original windows? Apparently most heat loss is through windows and I'll fitting front doors...

Yes, if you have ill-fitting sash windows you should definitely get those sorted.

Do you have access to cheapish supplies of wood/smokeless coal? If so you'll probably save money, otherwise it's harder to say, especially if you have to incur costs lining the chimney etc. I'd do a proper spreadsheet before making a decision.

MinimalistMommi thanks windows are UPVC and were installed in 2003 and are of good quality. Hopefully, they will have a few years left.

MooncupGoddess (love the name ;)unfortunately, no we don't have cheap supplies of wood or coal. We were thinking with fuel prices increasing substantially every year would it be cheaper in the long run to get the stove?

Well, wood and smokeless coal prices can increase too. I really would suggest a detailed analysis given the set-up costs involved. Gas-fired central heating should in theory be more cheaper and more efficient.

Having said that, stoves are lovely!

We're expecting our installation to be about £3,000- £3,500 is that helps at all.

Thanks, I do like the look of them currently looking at Morso stoves. Initially it was all down to saving money but they look REALLY good.

MM what KW is the one you are getting?

Hi Zara - my stove is 5kw, which is the most powerful you can put in without having to install an airbrick. I got a Morso and the cost including the hearth was £2900 in total. It will take a while to earn that back through decreased fuel bills, and my main reason for getting it was self-indulgence to be honest, followed by an attempt at being a bit greener! One really great thing about the installation is that it has stopped the Arctic breeze that was blowing down the chimney before, which has really warmed the house up. The stove is quite powerful once it gets going - I do not currently have central heating downstairs (because I took the rads off to decorate and can't be arsed to put them back on since I have new ones coming) and I've been toasty with it on in the evening even in this latest cold snap. If you have space, maybe think about buying logs in bulk and storing them in a wood store, as this is cheaper??

Do check out the green deal, as it might really work for you.

5 KW.
If it helps, I think Morso are just as good as Clearview, they just look more modern. Clearview stoves are meant to be the Rolls Royce of stoves but Morso are considered very, very good too. It's not worth saving money on a woodburner as they won't run as efficiently if they're cheap.

-sturggling I'm jealous of your stove! it sounds beautiful, I really really wish ours was installed right now! I'm freezing even with central heating on!

Im not one to put anyone off insulating or having a woodburning stove. We had cavity wall insulation a couple of years ago and we have a woodburning stove which I love.

BUT its going to take an awfully long time for there to be any money saving impact unless you have your own wood supply. £10,000 (!!) is still a LOT of electricity/gas plus you have to buy the wood (or other fuel) and as more and more people install woodburning stoves the prices will go up. You also have to have the chimney swept and most stoves have a limited lifespan.

I love my woodburning stove, it saves me money and I'm going to have another installed if we can find a suitable place to put it but I have woodland and therefore a free wood supply. If you don't then the sums don't necessarily add up.

Struggling100 which one do you have, looking at the Squirrel at the moment. Must be great to only have central heating in the upstairs only. We have a cellar but I guess that is too damp to store. Our garden is tiny but I guess we could get a wood store. Maybe we can move our bikes inside and use that as storage......... thanks you are selling me on the idea!

MM - thank you. If we go for it I think it will be Morso I love the designs.

Littleredsquirrel thanks what you say makes sense. Do you save a lot on having the cavity wall insulation. We try to be as environmentally friendly as we can and ride bikes got rid of the cars a few years back. I guess we should have bought a new build but we fell in love with this house.

don't have the space that I can afford to lose 10cm off every wall

but you don't lose 10cm of every wall - just the external walls, so that would mean most rooms will have two and sometimes three internal walls which do not need the insulation

I have an identical house and am about to have free loft and cavity wall insulation through the Mark Group. I'm not on benefits, it's just yet another government scheme.

Had a woodburner in my old house and really miss it. I reckon it paid for itself in 10 yrs. Even if I'm kidding myself, it was worth it!

The cavity wall insulation definitely made a difference to the heat retention in winter but has made the house colder in the summer. I would recommend it. Are there still grants around or would you have to fund it?

The woodburner is great but doesn't warm the house up as quickly as central heating and is of course far more labour intensive. If you don't nurse it it will die. You will need somewhere to store the wood. Its amazing how quickly you'll get through it. We use a good couple of armfuls of logs each day at this time of year when we only have it on really in the evenings and during the winter when its on from when we get up until when we go to bed we use far, far more. Plus you need somewhere to store kindling and a stash of waste paper or newspaper.

Thanks everyone just a quick message as I won't have internet access from now until Sunday . Hearing your experience is invaluable. Thank you!

MinimalistMommi - when does yours arrive? I hope it is soon so that you can start enjoying it. It is so exciting watching it being installed! I had fits of excitement cooking baked beans in a saucepan on top of mine once it was lit!!

Zara - I have the Morso 04. I liked the badger, but I needed something quite narrow as my chimney breast isn't very wide. I imagine that a Victorian chimney breast would give you a bit more space to play with! But there are lots of great stove makers - the Clearview stoves are lovely too, and Charnwood make some really nice ones as well. I definitely recommend visiting a few shops, as it is really fun choosing :) But take what retailers say with a pinch of salt: I found that in the city where I live each retailer only stocked certain makes where they had a relationship with the supplier (and a commensurate discount!), and would push these really hard while rubbishing the other products on the market. This resulted in a lot of conflicting advice which was quite confusing at first, until I realised what was going on!

I am a log storing novice, but I have been told that the main issue is airflow around the pile, so maybe a cellar wouldn't be ideal. Do you have a corner of the garden you could use? I got a chicken run off Freecycle and am converting it into a log store by putting a couple of pallets in the bottom. I reckon someone handier could knock up a store made from free pallets in a couple of hours.

struggling we won't get it installed until next August we are renovating at the moment and everything else is taking precedence, the woodburner is our little bit of luxury!

if you are in a terrace you will not be able to insulate externally as you would not get planning permission and it would look weird. You probably do not have much external wall though.

You should concentrate on insulating the loft. As you have an attic conversion you should have got top-class insulation behind the walls and ceiling of the attic room. But you probably haven't.

A multifuel stove is greatly preferable to a woodburner.

struggling the Morso 04 looks fantastic as does the badger. Thanks I will look around, am quite good at getting a bargain I see it as a challenge ;) I was drawn to Morso but will certainly look at other products.
That's really useful we are useless at DIY but I think we can manage to do that.
Piglet John the loft is insulated, we did some work on the house before moving in getting the attic room insulated and knocking walls down to expand the area.

I agree with littleredsquirrel, as usual. I LOVE our stove, but I don't think it's at all obvious that it saves you anything on heating bills. Ok, if you have a free supply of wood AND space to season it properly, that's great, but that doesn't come with the average victorian terrace. I haven't worked out the price per kWh of decent wood (crap wood is a complete false economy, by the way)... It may be less than a kWh of gas, but then a good gas central heating system is a really efficient way to heat a house. I also love the idea of reducing my use of fossil fuels, but freighting logs halfway round the country is not without environmental impacts. Until I win the lotto, and can spend my days coppicing my own wood on my own land, I accept that the stove is a luxury rather than a money saving device.

Oh, and if you like the look of the morso 04, consider also the westfire one: www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Westfire-Series-One-Stove.html

I can testify that it's amazing!

I have wondered about the carbon impact of freighting wood and how this affects the environmental credentials of these stoves. I'm lucky in that I can buy excellent wood cheaply just up the road, despite the fact I live in a city. But freighting kiln dried has to eat into the CO2 savings, right? Or am I missing something?

Have another think on internal insulation. We've done it in a few rooms and honestly its made a massive difference. We've only done it on the outside walls, as thats where most of the heat is lost. It is a pain in the ass, although not too bad for us as we were doing big renovations in our old terrace cottage anyway. The old plaster (which was manky and damp) is hacked off, wooden strips applied to the bare stone and then insulated plaster board to this then skimmed over the top. We needed new deeper window sills and the old skirting boards were then replaced. We also needed one radiator off and some plug sockets moving across, our plasterer is v handy and did all this at same time. We lost about 10 cm from the front wall, not enough that you would ever notice. Cost about £600 per wall approx 4 m wide for everything. So yes quite a lot of expense and disruption but if you are doing renovations anyway, its really worth it.

We've done it in 2 of the four front rooms that got a lot of the weather and were really cold. They now heat up much quicker, cool down slower and are toasty warm when the heatings on. They also have shiny new plastered walls, skirting and sills and so look lovely.

Oh and get a multifuel stove if you can get one, they are just lovely!