Door fire regulation when extending into loft - advice please!

[DorsetLass]

I need to replace three doors downstairs - but we are extending into the roof next year. I have heard that we need to upgrade existing doors to comply with fire regulations if extend upwards - what exactly do I need to get when I get the new doors? Are standard howdon doors compliant?

Fire doors are thicker & heavier, with 3 hinges and intumescent strips. They have to give 30 minutes fire resistance.

Standard doors are not fire doors.

We did our loft last year and didn't need to insert fire doors but put in a hi-tech fire alarm system. I know it works because it goes off every time I use the grill- ggggrrrr. I think you need to do one or the other, but best thing is to get in touch with the relevant people in your area and ask.

We had to have special hinges, paper, and edging put on our existing doors.

Yes - as an alternative you could fit hard wired inter-linked smoke detectors in every habitable room.

The loft conversion people will tell you. It's part of the new regs so they will be used to it.

I would wait until then and do it at the same time in case they need replacing with a different sort of door entirely.

Intumescent strips - that's the name for the edging I was thinking of.

Dede, we had to get alarms too.

Thank you for such prompt replies!! Got carpenter coming to quote in the morning and don't want to look like complete idiot! (Since taking on house renovating I spend so much time out if my depth trying to look like I know what I am talking about!!)

Yes, this one bit me in the arse too. Fire doors are surprisingly expensive. My nice carpenter man is getting mine from Magnet with his trade discount card. They're working out to £150 each though, as I'm insisting on 'naice' ones to match my original doors. And that's hundreds of pounds cheaper than the non-trade ones.

We have two rooms downstairs with our any doors - need the doors to keep dogs and toddlers out of study / dog in utility room! Otherwise would take your advice and wait.

Mummytomog - did you have to replace doors to all rooms with fire doors?

We have just had our loft converted and had to replace several doors downstairs with fire doors. We were advised by local building regs office that we had to have the doors and that a smoke alarm in each room alone would not comply with new regs. It may well vary depending where you live though. We found some nice period-style fire doors on internet and just got the builder to fit them at the end of the conversion.

I'm a rebel.
Having read Approved Document B I argued the toss with the Building regs man that the 30 min fire doors he wanted everywhere did not have to have closers or BE closed to pass the check
at which stage he had to admit that an open fire door is the same as a normal door
that and the escape window we had to put in for the planning permission "did not count" by the date of sign off
so I spoke to my insurance and mortgage companies
proved to them the interlinked detectors on each floor
accepted the increase in Council tax that includes the non signed off rooms
and will wait for the regs to get real

It is several years since fire doors had to have closers fitted. I am a BCO and we could never enforce that doors are kept shut either. However, if you have accommodation on the 2nd floor, you have to make that area safe to escape from. It used to be that you could have escape windows from that floor, but not any more.

There are lots of ways around this requirement (it is not set in stone) - having smoke alarms in every room or having intumescent coatings applied to existing doors or having having a sprinkler/misting system designed by a fire engineering company.

Different local authorities accept different solutions.

Mine are a bit arsey. We have a hard wired smoke detector for the second floor and fire doors to all rooms off the staircase. So every bedroom, the main bathroom, the living room and the door that leads to the kitchen. We retained our original doors and are going to stick them on the en suites though and the doors in the utility and downstairs loo (which are behind a fire door). We probably will actually close off the staircase to keep the cats out of the rest of the house at night, so will probably be quite fire safe.

Thanks all - Puffyshirt - are all doors on the ground floor required to be fire doors? Or just doors open to stairs? Dies it include small rooms like downstairs loo? Thank you!!

All habitable rooms on ground, first and second floor in order to form a protected route from the loft to the outside air. This does not include bathrooms or non habitable rooms such as utility/dstairs loo but includes all other doors that lead onto stairs and or hall.

which is all just STUPID as doors can be left open .... so stop being fire doors at that moment
AND
the number of non arson house fires has dropped 50 fold in the last 30 years

I'll wait till the regs get real thank you very much

intumescent coatings are utterly irrelevant when the door is open and there is through fitted carpet after all

"protected route"
from our top room there is an easy and safe route out across the roof - but it does not "count"

Barrate love blocking imaginative houses by having their folks all over the DCLG at policy level. Bring on self build

We had ours done three years ago and had to have 30 min fire doors to all non-bathrooms as well as a hard wired alarm system. I fucking hate the doors. They're almost totally soundproof, which means I can't hear the kids if they wake in the night, even if they scream (we sleep up in the conversion). Also, they're arguably more of a fire risk for the kids because they can't open them very easily. Obviously I could just leave the doors open at night, but the kids don't sleep well with their doors open, plus it makes the bedrooms really cold in the winter. Grrrrr.

I actually prefer fire doors, because they feel, and are, much more substantial. They also blot out sound, which modern lightweight doors don't. This is a great advantage in bedrooms as well as bathrooms and WCs .

depending on the age and style of your home you can get real or pretend panels, flush, boarded or veneered to suit.

Paint grade doors are always less expensive. You can often get doors for about £60 (you will probably be buying a number at the same time to fit out a house)

I like this one in an substantial Edwardian house (it is made by Premdoor) but Magnet sometimes have better deals. The furry smoke strip also acts as draught strip, and helps to blot sound too. So does the fireproof expanding foam used to seal the door lining to the wall. If you have a teenage daughter she wil be annoyed that she can't slam them loudly enough to make the house shake.

If you are rich enough you can have solid hardwood doors made to your order that meet FD30. Some of then are stunningly heavy.

there will almost certainly be a joinery outlet or a door specialist in your nearest town.

piglet
totally understand, but we are an open door house
no doors are closed in habitable rooms ever (because of cats)
so any sort of "fire timing" is a joke because the flames gor round
BUT
house fires are so rare that its all "fighting the last war"

p.s.

By mistake I linked to the version which has a fake woodgreain texture. This is revolting. They are available with smooth surface for the same price.

Some people prefer a cottagey veneered board style but there are lots to choose from

I probably can't give you a magnet trade link that you can access.

Thanks all - was hoping to have the door between hall and open plan kitchen/diner glazed - just been looking online - how expensive!!!!! Carpenter coming shortly so will discuss some options. Thanks for link to wicks Piglet john - found some like.

you will almost certainly need new door linings ("frames") as well, because the fire doors are very heavy. The correct linings have a groove for the smoke strip.

I strongly recommend lift-off hinges for fire doors, since they are so heavy they are difficult to remove and rehang otherwise, e.g. for redecoration or changing the carpet. You can get then in brass PVD, stainless, or to paint. Ironmongery Direct have a very good range.

Was interested to hear that the sound-muffling can sometimes be a disadvantage.

pigletjohn I was equally interested to hear that sound-muffling can be an advantage. Hopefully I will grow to love my fire doors once the kids are teenagers! At the moment, though, I still have a baby monitor for both kids, even DS1 who's six, in case he has a nightmare or is ill in the night.

Different local authorities make different decisions on this - the regulations themselves are a bit woolly too, they say "Note: If it is considered undesirable to replace existing or doors (e.g. if they are of historical or architectural merit) it may be possible to retain the doors, or upgrade them to an acceptable standard."

So you could always try getting it in writing from a qualified architect that the doors are of architectural merit. I thought I'd give this a go (as I don't want to bin our 1930s "1 over 3" panel doors, and it's not easy to find a matching cheap/common fire door either), along with putting interlinked smoke/heat alarms in all the rooms (except bathrooms/toilets), and also putting fire doors on the kitchen+lounge (which is where most fires start).

You also have the option of going to a private building control company, rather than the local authority too, so you could always enquire how they interpret this part of the regs before-hand (too late for me tho', I've already handed over the cash to the local council!).

One thing I've seen done is to make up a fire door using pairs of the original doors screwed together. You do end up with a thick / heavy door, but this can have it's advantages, and beats throwing them away...