adding en suite with V without building regulations

[Xmasbaby11]

We live in a Victorian house and on the 3rd floor there is one large / 2 bedrooms which we are planning to change to 1 master bedroom with en suite. There is no problem knocking down the wall, and it is already a room, so it's not a conversion. However, with changing the layout, the plumbing, adding the bathoom, moving radiators, changing lighting, etc it is quite costly.

We've been given two quotes by one builder (recommended by a friend) - one following building regulations, one not. He is happy to do either and we need to decide. The former is about £3000 more than the latter. He says they are both legal, but following the regs would avoid any issues when we come to selling, and the insulation would save energy.

Does anyone have knowledge / experience of this? We don't mind paying more if it's a good investment, but don't want to do so needlessly. The other builders we've had quotes from have not mentioned this.

I believe that building regs do have to be followed when creating a new bathroom area where there wasn't one before (it is mandatory to have an extractor fan for instance - Part F; wiring has to be to Part P and so on) so I'd question the builder's claim that it is legal not to follow the regs .

It's really hard to say where his figures are coming from but a £3000 difference sounds extraordinary. The others may not have mentioned it because it was taken as read that you would want the work done to building regs standards - why wouldn't you? I think it would be a mistake not to do it to these standards as it could come to bite you on the bum when you come to sell. It might be a question of doing the work in stages though if the price really is so much higher.

As soon as he mentioned it, I assumed we would go with the regs, but found it v confusing that he considers both legal. The others may have included this, you're right, but they didn't mention having to get an architect and a council visit, which are extra steps in the process. We could afford it; it's more an issue of understanding why we are spending the extra money. It's looking to be about 12 grand which is a lot more than we'd thought.

We are under some time pressure to get it done as I'm pregnant and due in Jan. DH and I wanted to move into the room by Xmas so that DD1 has some time to adjust to us being in a different bedroom.

I would get someone else in to quote too - as you (as the homeowner) are responsible for getting any improvements done correctly -you are the one who deals with the fallout and the fine if it breaks code !!! I would be wary of someone who puts such a financial incentive on doing it that's 'still legal with no building regs' ?!?!?!?! Alternately speak to your local planning and building regs office and ask their opinion of what your builder suggests .

You will need building regulations to knock down load bearing Walls (may not be an issue), and provide a bathroom where there wasn't one before.
Your builder is incorrect to say that it's 'legal' either way. Building regulations are not optional and are there for good reasons to make sure work is done correctly and safely. Without building regulation approval you have no way of knowing that the plumbing/ventilation/structural changes meet minimum safe standards. You will also need the certification to prove it's done correctly if you wish to sell.
Building regulations are a minimum standard and it should not be such a variation in costs. The standard of work to meet the regulations is a minimum and therefore the only difference is paperwork /inspection costs which might run to a few hundred pounds not £3k. I would be looking for somebody else to quote. You should get at least 3quotes and all should be aiming at a minimum to meet regulations.

You'll be fecked if you have it done without building regs when you come to sell it and your builder would be told to feck the feck off for even suggesting it.

I would be very concerned about sidestepping building regs when it comes to bathrooms. As others have said, we're talking minimum safety standards, and in a bathroom that involves plumbing, water, electricals, so not stuff I would want to muck about with.

Where does the £3k figure come from though? He must be doing something different - leaving out an extractor fan, not providing proper reinforcement of the floor/walls to support the new bathroom. £3k is more than a couple of architect/council visits.

I would assume any quote I got for work like this would comply with building regs. Any builder that suggested bypassing them would be shown the door.

As far as I'm aware....

Anyone selling you something / some service in your home or place of work should be giving you proper paperwork showing the price they are charging and what this covers. You have 7 day cooling off period or the right to waive that 7 day period and accept financial responsibility any work undertaken within that 7 day period if you then choose to cancel. ( sign accordingly ) Your rights to cancel should be given to you, in writing, before any work starts. Your 7 day cooling off period starts from when you are given the right to cancel notice, even if this is after the job is done, if they forgot to inform you in writing.

Any reputable trades person should be following these rules too !!!

I would get some more quotes as it sounds excessively expensive.

Please don't proceed without involving building control. You would be in breach of the regulations and your LA could take legal action against you. And when you come to sell, you have to have a completion certificate.

The building control side should only add about £500 to the bill.

Has the builder asked you to pay cash? A possible reason for avoiding building regs is that there is no record of him working on your property, so tax wise he may be ducking and diving.

I have just had a kitchen extension done, so new drains, electrics etc. Building control was through the council. I believe it cost me no more than £500 and I now have paperwork signing off the completed build.

Plus electrics wise, I have a certificate to prove that the electrics were carried out by someone qualified to do it, and by that I mean qualified and able to provide me with the legal documents.

This is our forever house so we are not looking to sell in the near future but I would still make sure that my house complied with regulations.

I would ask the builder what he intends to do differently for that £3000.

In our build we had to insulate the floor of the extension, so the original part of the kitchen just has a concrete floor like the rest of the house. The new bit is insulated under the concrete. That is the kind of thing that building regs insist on, it is weird when you think about it, because it is insulating just one tiny bit, but it hardly cost anything to do. I was more concerned about how much insulation was going in the roof

Thanks for all your replies. I had a look at the other quotes and realised yes they had included building regs stuff as standard. The builder was recommended by a friend and did not ask to be paid in cash. £480 is given as costs for architect and council fees, and then an extra £2430 for insulating the roof slopes! That's before VAT.

We're not going to go with this guy anyway. It's not the cost, but that I don't trust or understand his explanations about avoiding the regs.

The other builder has done lots of jobs for friends and was a lot more thorough and transparent in the breakdown of his pricing. The cost is still about 12 grand but that does include building wardrobes and decorating and other related work and fittings. I guess it's a bigger job than we realised.