Replacing windows in older house-WWYD?

[Thehoardernextdoor]

Our house is quite big (7 bedrooms), built in 1912 in Victorian style with timber windows, mostly sash. They mostly have secondary double glazing which is a pain anyway but in winter the house is freezing and the gas bill is enormous. Several of the windows need replacing. We couldn't possibly afford to have them all done at once so my dilemma is whether to start replacing the timber windows with uPVC or stick to timber and all the issues with maintenance, energy costs etc. we will be downsizing in the not too distant future so my question is what would you prefer if you were to buy my house- timber (which is obviously more aesthetically pleasing) or uPVC for practicality? (Actually it will probably be a mixture unless we win the lottery in the meantime).

I think in a period house timber is always preferable. I think plastic windows look like veneered teeth too white and out of place. BUT if you are in a terrace you could do the back in pvc and just get double glazed reproduction sashes at the front. It also depends on the target market for selling if it is a buy to let landlord then sod it do plastic if its a boden type family they will faint at upvc

We are replacing the timber windows in our 1920s house with wood-look alike uPVC. The design is very similar to what we already have--down to the beading and door handles and you would have to stand very, very close to spot that they are not real wood. We have chosen a cream colour, not white, to make them look even 'softer'. It just gets expensive paying people to paint and treat the wood when we have so many harsh winters here, and some of them are very exposed to the elements.

We have a 1910 house and had to go with plastic, neighbours already had so it doesn't look to odd, although wood is nicer. We had no choice though, the windows were rotten and beyond repair and wooden windows we're just not affordable.

We originally had UPC, when we moved in. The house is 1780s and we had them replaced with wooden, which looks good, but our upstairs windows have needed repair several times now and I wish we'd have gone for UPC.

Please don't replace- repairing them will be a lot cheaper (I've seen miracles worked with repairing windows). To be honest, if you have secondary glazing and your gas bills are still high, it's probably not the windows (or certainly not just the windows) making it cold. UPVC will nt solve this- I'd bet my house on it!

It would put me off buying. I hate plastic, and I think the wood effect ones are just as bad. Wood is a lot more sustainable- much better for the environment and sash windows are just lovely.

I say this as someone who has just ordered new sash windows for our house- all the original ones has been replaced.

I avoided buying a house with plastic windows as I did not want to pay a premium for the windows and then have to pay to have them put back to wood. But I am a little unhinged on the subject of plastic windows

Actually, UPC windows are more environmentally friendly, as they can be recycled. Our window repairs have used large amounts of various chemicals, which aren't.

UPVC not UPC

They can't be recycled, can't be repaired, the chemicals in plastic are hugely bad for the environment.

No idea what chemicals you've used on your windows and why.

I am also unhinged when it comes to plastic windows humphreycobbler !

We had hard wood on the front and UPVC on the back ! Found a carpenter with a workshop who made them all to my design which was like Georgian but with arched tops - worked out about £1k per window + VAT and installation - but worth every penny !!!
Windows are the main thing that can make your home instantly look unique ! And that can up the market value, making your extra investment worthwhile !

Not UPVC - it doesn't last and once it breaks/starts to look shit it can't be fixed.
Environmentally UPVC is awful (look at green guide ratings if your interested)
Timber repair or replacement is expensive but can be fixed and will last between 60-100 yrs if maintained (modern timber windows this can be as little as a coat of paint every 5-8yrs)
UPVC is only really guaranteed up to 20yrs , they do last longer but often start to discolour (look shit)
So if you are staying anytime it's worth doing properly to make sure you only do it once.
It probably worth looking at quotes for repair which will be cheaper than UPVC and see what they say. (local joinery companies likely to be cheaper than national sash restorers)
Also get quotes for replacement and see what is worth doing.
I'm getting quotes atm for the replacement of our seemingly hundreds of huge Victorian sash windows on our new house so understand how daunting the cost is.

I've worked in recycling, and, yes, they can be, and are, recycled. Paint strippers and paint aren't exactly environmentally friendly.

Terrible for the environment

I had my 1920s sash windows replaced a decade ago. It was a choice between white UPVC at £2.2k, oak-effect UPVC at £2.5k or wood at £8.5k. I simply couldn't afford the wood, and I was upset about it, as someone who cares about the environment and was very anti-upvc. However, I was pleasantly surprised. Aesthetically, they are pleasant - and neighbours kept complimenting me on my new wood windows! Ten years on, they have not faded or discoloured at all, and have needed no maintenance, beyond one replacement hinge (a failed attempt a forced entry) and one replacement handle (snapped off by a teen!). I would have preferred wooden ones, but there's no doubt the UPVC ones were cheaper and easier.

BTW, replacing old windows is extremely messy, because the fitters displace decades of dirt and old rubble in the frames. I certainly wouldn't want to have replaced windows one by one, and am very glad I got the mess and disruption out of the way in one go.

(I don't mean frames, I mean casements and cavities).

We had our windows replaced with hardwood double glazed sashes and are very pleased with them. They do cost more than uPVC but do retain the look and functionality of the original sash design. The difference they make in terms of noise and heat insulation is pretty remarkable. Our old windows were singleglazed replacement shockers though. If you are near London/Essex I can recommend the firm we used.

If I was buying a house and it was a choice of old original sashes - even in some disrepair - and new cheap uPVC, I'd prefer to have the original sashes to deal with. At least then I have a choice to get them reconditioned or replaced. Once the uPVC has gone in you've lost the sash boxes in the wall too as I understand it.

flow it's not always messy
We had Victorian sashes replaced in our old flat and it was quick and hardly noticeable that anything had been done after a quick Hoover. The fitters protected everything and did a fab neat job.
The casements in my 1940s house were a bit messier but again not terrible.
The people who recommended the guys who are quoting for me at the moment said that these guys were also very neat & efficient, that's one of the reasons for using them.

Flow and Abra1d, could you please let me know which companies you used? I'm considering wood-effect uPVC due to the cost of replacing all our sash windows with timber and I'd love some recommendations on companies to consider. Thanks!!

One thing to consider is that replacing sash with upvc can often cause damp problems as rooms are unable to 'breathe' as they were designed to.

If you plan to move I'd leave them and let the new owners decide. Upvc Windows would put me off but for others they'd be a selling point.

Re your gas bills. Do you have really thick underlay and carpets down? Or wooden flooring?
I know someone who has just discovered a seriously heavy duty gas leak but because of the flooring, they couldn't smell it - it just went out the air brick. They lifted the carpets and had to call an engineer pronto.
When you get your boiler serviced, get them to do a check at the meter to make sure the flow is right.

That sounds good, Quodlibet - could you let me know the name of the firm who did them?

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to respond.
My heart still says timber windows would be more pleasing but dh is for uPVC. I try to maintain the ones I can get at safely but several are just inaccessible without scaffolding. When we had the whole house painted 5 years ago it cost £3,000. I just wonder how many people would keep up that sort of commitment/expense. The house is lovely, but it is in an area that is not considered particularly desirable (in the Midlands) -hence it was cheap to buy, but has proved to be more expensive to run than we envisaged in our child-like enthusiasm.
The windows which currently really need doing are not actually sashes, they're on the side of an extension used as a games room which is absolutely FREEZING in winter but these windows are not really visible form the road or the garden - so am tempted to go for uPVC - did you use a national firm, flow ?

Have a google of the green deal it may suit you.
Basically they assess your house for what improvements could benefit your property and save you money.
E.g under floor heating, double glazing, central heating, solar panels.
Then the government lend you the money to improve your home, you then pay it back via your gas or electric bill
The loan stays with your home not you, so if you move or rent it out the people benefitting pay it.

Have a look it might help

Mar2010, it was a local family firm. If you're in West/South Yorkshire, I'll send you the details. Let me know. :)