Do I need a new boiler? If so, a few questions...

[SunnyUpNorth]

Our boiler is 12 years old. It is an Alpha boiler and we have a megaflo hot water system.

The boiler was originally installed by a local firm (by previous owners of the house) and we have used that firm a few times, once for a service and twice for call outs when the hot water wasnt working.

They didn't charge us either time for the call outs as both times it was something really quick and easy so they were only here a few minutes. So, I don't think they are con men!

But when they were last here they said that with the boiler being 12 years old we should consider replacing it. They said boilers have a max life of about 16 years and that as our house is quite big our boiler will have had to work quite hard over the years.

He said a new boiler would save us around 12% pa in bills. We also need a thermostat so would get a wireless one fitted at the same time.

He quoted us £1100 to S&f a new boiler. He suggested an alpha Eco boiler at £1000. He said that was a good price as it is summer so they're not busy. I don't know what brand the thermostat would be, but he quoted £100 for that.

He also said that alpha only sell via approved suppliers and they aren't available online. But I googled the boiler he suggested and instantly found 3 places selling it for around £600 inc vat.

So I am now not sure if he is being legitimate or just trying to make a sale. Obviously I would push him on the price if we went ahead. I would like them to do the work seeing as they are familiar with the house and are local.

So, do you think I need a new boiler in the first place? I am thinking the increased efficiency is probably worth it as it should pay for itself in a few years.

Secondly, if we do need a new one, are Alpha worth sticking with or should I shop around? And how much should I expect to pay for a combi boiler?

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks.

I hate our Alpha boiler with a passion but it's limped on over the years so we've never got round to replacing it (we are now moving). A new one will be more efficient, but it depends on the reliability of your boiler, it might be worth researching now while it's still working than being forced to make a decision quickly when it breaks down in the middle of winter.
Which? Do a comparison of boiler makes and alpha are very middling.
Personally I would go for one of their top 3 - Vaillant, Worchester or Viessman
I've had these installed on many projects I've worked on and they also have a good rep in the construction industry.
I will be replacing the one in the new house with one of these. It's 25yo and past it's best in terms of efficiency although I believe it's working ok.

Thanks wonky, interesting to hear that Which don't rate Alpha. I think the company we have been using only supply Alpha, so I might have to look around.

Don't suppose you happen to know if the megaflo would be compatible with any boiler brand? I had a thread a few months ago about getting a service on my boiler and in sure pigletjohn said Alpha were a good make. I shall have to do a search!

Is he quoting for the installation at £1k? In which case, it sounds reasonable.

There is so much to say on the subject and so little time so here are my quick points.
16 years for a modern boiler is optermistic, expected lifespan average 12 years so yes be ready to replace yours within the next few years.
But don't replace it while it is working fine, just when repairs become too costly to justify -
Yes a new boiler will use less gas (save money) but the saving does not generally justify replacing your boiler prematurely because the typical cost of replacement boiler is £2,000 (yes can be less and can be more).
I know loads of heating engineers and I don't know any who would recommend Alpha - he may suggest that because you already have one.

I would go for Worcester Bosch, or anything from the Baxi group (anything looked after by Heateam). there are other good brands such as Vaillant.

When you have a new boiler installed you must have heating controls upgraded according to building regulations - ie Thermostat and thermostatic radiator valves.

I highly recommend anyone wanting a new oiler gets at least 3 quotes - this will give you a good idea on price and other things. Just googgling price of boiler won't tell you much because installer has to buy other stuff and the other stuff can add up to as much as the boiler! I wrote a blog about it once - here
mrstaraplumbing.com/2011/05/29/why-is-it-so-expensive-to-replace-a-boiler-from-1300-to-2999/

His price is very cheap - that may be a good thing. It is true gas engineer are not so busy in summer and that is the best time to replace your boiler - not when it breaks down in freezing winter.

I don't understand why you would consider replacing your boiler when there is apparently nothing wrong with it. Your only advantage is that you can choose to replace it in the summer when you don't need heating rather than less conveniently in winter if it goes wrong and needs replacing urgently.

The "saving" will only be on your bills but you'll be paying out for the boiler so you won't actually be better off in the short term.

I would ask 3 or 4 companies for quotations and compare them. It sounds like your usual one is just after work and your money.

I'm a bit amazed at a boiler lasting only 16 years. We bought a house with a 30 year old boiler and it lasted another 5 years. We then bought a Worcester Bosch condenser boiler which apparently should last 30 years.

Thanks MrsT, that's all really helpful. We will have a good think and when the time comes to definitely replace it I will shop around a bit.

Jan - we would consider replacing it as the lifespan isn't supposed to be very long. I don't know if it is just sales chat, but the engineer said that things will start going wrong that would cost £200+ to repair. If it did save us 12% in bills per year that would be a big saving as we live in a large house, so it would effectively pay for itself over a few years.

I just thought I would chip in here as our boiler gave up the ghost a few weeks ago. Sadly we don't have savings available to replace it. I tried to use the Green Deal blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2013/02/07/10-changes-thatd-make-the-green-deal-more-popular/ so it may be worth a call to see if you are eligible? Sadly we were refused because ours was a combi already they wouldn't install a new one for us. The idea is that a new boiler would be cheaper to run but you would pay indirectly for the installation via your gas bills for a set time.

P.S Ours was a Worchester Bosch Ri Greensar which I would avoid like the plague. Broke every year at the first bit of frost (pipe they put in was too narrow for purpose and froze every year) and cost at least £200-400 per year to fix (lived here 8 years). At that price I could have had a new boiler! To be fair the installation sounds shoddy (not my doing) and it meant the pump was under enormous pressure (3 replacements to date) and the final straw being they apparently managed to put the condensing flue on a diagonal upwards slant...clearly meaning the water droplets couldn't escape which has finally flooded the main electrical circuit.

That as installed by a local company who came highly recommended as a family firm. They folded 4 years ago, started up under a new name and so refused to take any responsibility for their shoddy work. That is another reason I think the scheme above would be good as I imagine they would cover you via your energy company for replacements as well.

Thanks lion. That sounds very annoying about your boiler. Honestly, you would think someone who does that job day in day out would at least know the basics such as what width of piping to use!

At least I know the firm I am dealing with installed the current system 12 years ago and it has pretty much been without fault as far as I'm aware, so that is worth something.

Just asked oh gas engineer- he said dont replace the boiler unless its not working its still got life in it.
Also alpha parts are expensive so suggested a Worcester boiler if you do decide to go for a new one

I'm going to type very quietly in case the boiler hears. As Mrs T says really don't rush to replace your boiler 9 years ago I was given the advice Mrs T has given you and so far the only thing I have had to repair cost £40. Boiler has just celebrated his 27 birthday, 12 years a mere whippersnapper only just coming into prime. Bless you boiler I love you please survive another year.

our boiler is an oil fired one and is about 40 years old. We looked into replacing it and have been told if it works leave it alone. The savings are minimal and the best thing is to get new radiators and have the system filled with Vernox (?) to make it work well. We are doing that this summer

Thanks all.
Think we will probably leave it in that case and replace if any expensive repairs are needed (which hopefully won't be in the midst of winter!)