New double glazed windows - is this normal draught/noise wise?

[Reastie]

I've never had double glazed windows. We've just had/having fitted new wooden sash double glazed windows to replace our rotting and exceptionally draughty original ones.

I think I expected something exceptional and possibly unrealistic but I have no knowledge of this and don't know if what we've got is to be expected or not.

We can feel a slight breeze at the bottom of the window (as in where it lifts up). It's only when I put my hand on the wood and it's only a very gentle and minor breeze (although it hasn't been that windy to test it). It's infinitely better than the old windows but I was just a bit that I could feel any cool outside air at all. I thought we wouldn't get any cold coming in through the new windows? Maybe this is the trade off in us choosing wooden double glazed sash?

The noise reduction is also not as much as I had anticipated. I think this is me being unrealistic having never had double glazed and thinking it was so amazing it would cut out noise outside though . Is it normal to still hear cars drive by outside and be woken by bird song at 3/4am? (I'm quite a light sleeper though).

Any advice on whether this is to be expected or not would be fab. They are finishing the job tomorrow so I need to mention any concerns then before completing payment.

Mention the breeze to them - I think by law sash windows need some ventilation in them.

From my experience, yes even with double glazed its normal to hear cars/bird song. You need extra strengthened glass to block that out.

PS but you will find it a lot warmer in winter!

Are they draft stripped? That should help with breeze.

All windows do have to have ventilation in them though. With regard to noise- double glazing won't cut out all noise. If that was the issue secondary glazing would have been better- bigger between the glass, the better.

Talk to the fitters though- see what they suggest.

Draft stripped? I have no idea what that means, sorry.

The noise isn't a major issue, just a surprise, it's the draft that's more annoying, I just wanted to check it's normal. Looks like it might be though.

It's a furry line on both the window and the frame which seals it when closed. That's the best way to describe it! You could ask them to do that- it would certainly help!

We don't have a furry line on the window and frame but we do have a little cushioned bit on the bottom of the window (maybe that's more to stop banging when it's lowered though??)

the furry pile strip is very good for sliding sashes, because it allows the sash to slide over it (think of pushing a light block of wood over a carpet) and it does not stick like plastic seals. It is normally fitted down the sides and usually where the two sashes meet in the middle, possibly on the inner face of the bottom rail . The bottom and top do not slide so usually have a plastic tubular "P" or finned seal

There may well be Trickle vents, probably at the top, which is not the same as a draught round the frame.

The frame will probably have been sealed into the wall by injecting expanding plastic foam into the gap from a big aerosol can. The gap will then be hidden with an architrave-type moulding on the inside, and a silicone or similar seal on the outside. This prevents noise or draughts getting past the frame

Buy some joss sticks and hold them near the windows, the smoke will be blown any draught.

We have the furry pile strip - still doesnt keep out all noise etc.

so have I, it is good for blotting draughts, though.

I think even modern sash windows would have a draught? I'm sure the furry strips would help though. I think, yes, double glazing does let sounds of passing cars etc in, I think probably more through a day window rather than say a casement window, even when new.

We've just had secondary glazing put in behind our sash windows and taken out again because it simply didn't work!
That was stressful! Usually, it is meant to work though.
It doesn't look very good though IMO.

That should have read sash window not 'day' window

MinimalistMommi - do you mind me asking about your secondary glazing that didn't work? Do you know why it didn't work? Am seriously considering secondary glazing, so very interested to hear your story if you wouldn't mind sharing? Yours hopefully!

We'd never had double glazing until we moved to our current house 4 years ago. I'm shocked by the amount of draught we get on some of the windows/around the front and back door. One or two windows appear to have twisted frames - either down to poor workmanship or because the window may have been damaged by wind sometimes in the past. It is so bad in DD2's room that I use tape over the gaps when it is very cold/windy in the winter. I've tried using that sticky foam insulation on a roll stuff but that hasn't really helped. No idea what to do about it apart from getting new windows fitted which really isn't an option at the moment.

take off the plastic trim which hides the gap between the window frame and the wall. The gap ought to have been sealed, usually by injecting expanding plastic foam, which sets rigid.

If there is a gap, come back because the foam can be awkward to use if you have not done it before, and is extremely sticky before it sets.

Twisted frames need refitting professionally. If the windows were badly fitted to an old house, it is possible that the old wooden windows used to support the brick wall above. Plastic windows will not do that and need a lintel or they will be squashed.

Very interesting here peoples experiences of windows.

I have discovered that the bird noise at 4am is much less than it used to be so there's definitely a decent noise reduction.

pigletjohn I have to ask (although realise this may have been done loads of times already), where do you get your amazing wealth of knowledge from? It seems you know everything

chromasomes.

It sounds as if the window has not been fitted properly, you can have the best quality DG window in the world but if there is a gap round the frame it wont do its job properly.

P. J. Is correct (as usual) buildings regs now require a lintel above the window.

Part
The secondary Glazing hardly worked at all. I mean it reduced the sound a tiny, tiny amount, but I could hardly tell it had been fitted. Stadip silence (acoustic specialist glass stuff) was used as well Even if just standard glass is used, the reduction in sound is meant to be four times less to the human ear. It was stressful as it was fitted to four sash windows so it was pretty expensive. Eventually someone came around to have a listen, they walked in and immediately said: 'It hasn't worked."
The person did not have a clue as to why it hadn't worked, it was well sealed around the frame etc It was literally a mystery. They were removed, our sash frames all need to be renovated now from the damage, but I think it is quite superficial damage. We, obviously, didn't pay a penny.

If it helps, the original sashes are old and draughty...

Thnk carefully about secondary, I would have been happy if they had of reduced sound but on the minus side, if you're interested in interiors/the looks of your home inside you house is important to you, you won't like secodary as the sub frames are BIG. It is not discreet. It doesn't look good if you want me to be honest. The short time we had it, it was a pain frankly to open windows for example. It was UGLY.

If you wanted something discreet and wanted secondary then I would seriously get a quote from Storm Windows as their stuff is discreet as its fitted within the subframe of original window. We didn't use them but we did get a quote. Their product looks excellent IMO. It's used in a lot of national trust properties.

I will say that the firm Mini used does seem to have acted very properly.

Hi Reastie, sorry the double glazing hasn't worked as you wanted it to. It must be a total pane (I'm getting my coat)!
I plumped for secondary glazing when I had the same prob as you. clearviewsg.wordpress.com/2012/09/20/say-goodbye-to-fido/ The draughts have gone and the noise is tonnes better (I mean there's lots less noise from outside, inside).