Advice please re: tenants

[Itsallabout]

We live overseas and rent out our Uk home to tenants who have been there 2 years ( house has been rented a total of 2.6 yrs).

Our tenants have been excellent and caused us no problems. I feel we too have been good landlords by rectifying any issues immediately. ( we also re painted a room they didn't like the colour of and had another extractor fan put in the bathroom because they didn't think the one there was efficient enough).

When their 1 year tenancy was up for renewal they wanted to convert to a month to month contract because they were looking to buy and expressed an interest to buy our home if it came into the market.

We have decided we have to now sell the Uk house. It is really a forced sale due to ongoing medical bills we need to prepare financially for. We asked our Letting agent to ask the tenents if they were interested in buying.
I received an email this morning, it says the tenants are not in a position to buy. After discussion with our agents they think their best option is for us to offer them a £200p/m rent reduction to compensate for allowing house viewings and then they require a 2 /3 month eviction notice after the house has sold. They also said they are struggling to keep the grass mowed due to the lawn mower we provided not being up to the job. They want us to pay for some-one to mow the lawn and do the weeding.
The tenants asked us last year to replace the lawn mower as it wasn't working properly ( it was only 14 months old and the garden is tiny). We had the mower blades replaced and no more was mentioned about it.( we also bought a strimmer for them to use).

Surely if the mower wasn't working again they should have mentioned it before now? We would have replaced it. Is the rent reduction normal? We of course would compensate them but simply cannot afford £200p/m. We understand that they will lose their home and I really feel for them. But in all honesty I do feel a little like they are taking advantage of the situation.

Your thoughts please. Thank you.

I've never known anyone who got a rent reduction. I've never known anyone who didn't immediately look for another place to rent either and give the LL notice first.

Is it an AST ? Do you have a copy as usually it defaults to one month on tenant and two on ll's side after initial term but the terms of the lease itself may vary this. However your risk is that they will leave now anyway and you'll have no income at all , maybe that is what agent is trying to avoid (plus they lose income) - will they benefit from the sale ? You'll need to offer the house with vacant possession (unless you plan to sell as a btl) and the fact tenants are there and not on notice may well deter some buyers. Ask someone to come and do the garden as for the relatively small cost it may make a difference to its saleability or pay £50 for a new mower.

Hi, I'm a LL and I offered a rent reduction when we were selling of about 10% in arrears (to make sure the flat was kept nicely). I don't know what proportion £200 is of the rent your tenants are paying. You do need to give two months' notice and this has to be from the date they pay rent (ie if rent is paid on 1st of every month, you can't issue nktice on 10th to leave in two months).

I'd try to get an estate agency involved that is prepared to do block viewings once or twice a week to mini.ise disruptio to your tenants - that will make them less able to demand unreasonable reductions. You can also say that you will be happy to provide them with a good reference if all remains amicable (the implication being yhat yoh won't if they're difficult). Tell them to sort out the garden ghemselves or the money is coming oht of their deposit. Really try tk keel things on an even keel as yoh don't want to try to sell with tenants in there who won't cooperate or, worse, won't move out.

Never in all my 25 plus years of renting have I had a rent reduction for viewings.

As a tenant, we would keep the garden generally tidy and regularly mow the lawn (borrowing or buying a mower ourselves, occasionally using one that was supplied). I seem to remember that all our contracts stipulated that the garden (when we had one) should be maintained like this and we fully expected deductions off the deposit if we left it unmowed and unkempt.

I would agree with those that say, it might be best to give them 2 months notice. It's not as if they are now not expecting to have to move. Perhaps if they find somewhere quickly you can accommodate them leaving earlier (say after a 1 month notice period) - that would be a good compromise. All this can be done in a civil manner. If they've been co-operative and agreeable you can possibly overlook any minor damage/breakages that you would normally deduct funds off the deposit for.

I have always said that the best thing about renting is that you can up-sticks when you need/want to without having to wait around selling a house. The flip-side of this is that the landlord can turn round and give you 2 months notice ANYTIME (OK in the first 6 months they can only give you notice 2 months before the end of the initial 6 month contract).

Good luck.

As a tenant I can tell you it is pretty shit being in a house that's for sale, firstly theres the fact your constantly cleaning and tidying (as well as packing) not able to plan as they may want a viewing, your also busy looking for your own new home. There's the random people wandering round your home judging.
Knowing the move is going to cost you a couple of grand.

Then there's the agents to deal with
we had estate agents just turn up for viewings, squeezing in extra viewings without asking, them not turn up when id waited in all morning. They spoke to us like scum (not twigging we'd need a home to move to and that's kinda their business!). We had it happen twice in the same house and I spent many a viewing hiding and crying as its horrible.

Now I'm not saying all that as a guilt trip just explaining the other side, the cleanest way for all concerned is get them out then sell. But however you chose to do it, be gentle its their home especially if they'd hoped to buy it.

Thank you for all the advice and your thoughts.

When we knew we would have to sell the property, my first thought was for the tenants losing their home. It saddens me to think they may see us as uncaring landlords, we aren't and we want to make this as stress free as possible for everyone concerned.

I have no idea why our letting agent discussed the rent reduction with the tenants as we hadn't yet decided how we were going to proceed. No decisions had been made with regards to giving notice before selling or trying to sell with the tenants still in the property. The £200 reduction would be far far more than 10% of the rent. Apparently it is the L. agent who suggested this amount to the tenant. We also know that the tenants have actively been seeking to buy a property ( my friend is an estate agent and has shown them around property very recently).

I think our only option at this point is to give them notice. It would be easier all round I think.
Thanks again for all your help.

I agree with Snog give them two months notice, get the placed spruced up and let the agents do their job.
I have viewed property with tenants, never been a nice experience and that's even if we have been able to gain access. I won't even put a rental property back on the market for rent until it is empty.
The simplest solution all round.

Im a tenant and i would never suggest a reduction in rent for in return i let future buyers view the property.

If they dont have to let people view the property, then why is it in the contract for you to do so?

Im leaving my current property in a few days as unfortunatly its in the wrong area.

I have bent over backwards to try and ensure the LL gets a tenant in right after we move.

I ve accommodated all sorts of short notice and inconvenient times. I ve had people knock on the door and ask about the property as their is a To Let sign in the garden, and i ve showed them round who knocked on the door enquiring about the house!!!

I ve felt guilty at leaving the property as we originally told the LL that we would stay 5 years, but due to circumstances we have only stayed 1 year.

The LL has always been really pleasant with us. He now has a tenant due to move in. I will leave this house immaculate before i hand back the keys.

Op

Your tenants are piss takers. The problem with private rental is that there is always that chance that the LL will want to sell. If you dont agree with that, then they shouldnt have gone private rental. Its just how it is. Do not reduce the rent, give them notice. Cheeky sods!

They sound a bit odd. My gut feeling is that they are going to make it difficult for you to sell the house and you should give them notice. It sounds like they just don't want to do the gardening and are trying to find excuses to make you pay a gardener. I think you'd be better off getting them out, then doing any improvements that will help sell and then putting it up for sale. I appreciate that might not be a practical financial option for you though.

Does the agent's letter really say they want 2/3 months eviction notice after the house has sold? Is this in England? That makes no sense. The day the house sells, they have to be out (unless the new owner has agreed to buy the house with a tenant in it) and the house becomes the property of the new owner. If you agree to a reduced rent whilst people are viewing, your sale may be delayed by grumpy tenants keeping the house untidy, so they neither help sell the house nor pay the proper rent.

When we were in this position as tenants we asked for a rent reduction. The owners weren't prepared to negotiate so we gave notice instead and the house sat empty for months. We asked because we were looking to buy and didn't really want to tie in for a 6 month contract. We thought it would benefit us by saving money and benefit the landlords by not having an empty house. If you think the loss of rental income will be offset elsewhere then give notice. If you really can't afford the loss of rental income you may be better trying to come to some agreement.

I would serve notice sooner rather than later, and put the house on the market empty.

I am concerned that they are mentioning eviction, are they planning to make it really difficult for you, or do they mean just a standard section 21 notice? (If that is what is required on a rolling tenancy, I am not sure)

I would ask the letting agent to ensure they serve a legal and enforceable notice now.

The agent is YOUR agent. What on earth is he/she doing proposing a rent reduction for viewings? This is completely against your interests (and in no way standard practice).

Personally, I'd get them out, and sell a nice tidy empty house. The downside to this plan is that it could be empty for a few months while it sells.

I've been in both positions recently. I didn't increase my tenants rent this year (would have been £50 per month) in return for allowing viewings and a rolling contract which suited us both as I wanted to sell and he wanted to buy (not my house). If you think about it you have two options you can either give them their two months notice from the next rent due date, which means you'll inevitably have a void period and no rent coming in. Your tenants will have to buy somewhere unfeasonably quickly or rent a different property, they will have to comit to a minimum of six months. They won't want to do this if they're looking to buy. Therefore it's just as beneficial to them to stay put.

If they stay they have the flexibility to find somewhere to buy without having to comit to a six month rent, the price they pay for this is to allow viewings. You can offer to have viewings during set times ie Saturday afternoons and one weekday to minimise the inconvenience.

The tenant can refuse viewings regardless of what the contract says, but if they do this then you just issue notice.

I have never heard of having a rent reduction for allowing viewings. surely thats part and parcel of moving home, regardelss of renting or buying. If you had a mortgaged house and were selling you'd hardly ask the mortgage company for a reduction in repayments for the inconvenience.

If they are actiely looking to buy then by being on notice surely allows them to move sooner as well?

I would email back firmly but politley denying the reduction in rent and saying that notice will be given on the date that the rent is due. and a gentle reminder that the garden must be kept in a reasonable state or the cost of a gardner to rectify the situation will be taken from the deposit.

If the tenants have not been issued notice when the house sells then the new buyer will have to take their tenancy on and issue notice, the same as any landlord. Which is another good reason to issue notice before trying to sell - i think anyone buying a house with tenants in place is setting themselves up for a lot of potential hassle. It has to put buyers off.

they are beginning to take advantage. Issue them with the proper notice (it is two months on your side) and set up an agent to start viewings once they've gone. (this is in case they don't go) You'll also need to make arrangements to have the property secured and managed while it is empty.

This relationship is only going to get worse. It is too difficult all round to sell a property with tenants in situ.

How is she 'the landlord from hell'??? If you rent you accept that people will be shown around be property once you've given/been given notice.

just saw the first post

It would be very daft to behave like that.

I would check how property is selling in your area. Some places are very slow, some are gone after 1 open day.

If the agent suggested this to them, I have to wonder if they haven't actually had an offer accepted (or are hoping to soon)... And are stalling. They wouldn't want to move and get tied up for another 6-12 month contract but probably need 3-4 months to exchange/complete.

Still taking the piss as in that situation they should've definitely come to you and ask for flexibility instead of reduction. Just makes me wonder why the agent would be keen on keeping a better relationship with your tenants than you, and the obvious answer is he wants them as clients to sell a property to and get a hefty commission.

Serve them notice and get them out. A tenant/landlord relationship works both ways and they are taking the piss.

I'm a tenant.

legal stuff aside, it sounds to me like they have decided they just don't want to move out (which I suppose is fair enough, but not your problem)

Just deliver them the notice thingy and get rid of them.

The letting agent sounds a bit dodgy to me. Why has he (or she) suggested a discount without having been instructed to do so by you?

My reaction would always be mirroring that of the tenant really. These sound particularly awkward hence the course I would take. Get the contract out and have at it.

On the other hand a good tenant is a thing to be looked after and most issues can and should be easily solved amicably to everyone's satisfaction.

Either way, your rental properties are usually some kind of necessary income which needs protecting.

I'm dead nice really