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Original poster

Buying a house - searches have revealed that "our" land continues beyond the back garden wall into the neighbours' garden - implications?

34 replies

KindleMum · 09/03/2013 14:13

As the title, really. We got the draft contract from the solicitor yesterday and the covering letter says they are concerned that the land registry shows that some of our land is in the garden of the house that backs on to our garden. It's a fairly sizeable chunk. Also that there is a covenant making us responsible for the wall - which I suppose results from "us" owning the land either side of the wall.

Are the implications here that I'm not seeing? We are very happy with the garden as it is, I don't need the extra land. On the other hand, the house behind is up for sale and if their new buyer wanted to buy that strip off us, surely that's an unexpected bonus? I can only see positives, rather than negatives, to this.

We'll talk to the solicitor on Monday, but what am I missing here?

OP posts:
betterwhenthesunshines · 09/03/2013 16:16

I think if there has been an uncontested border change ( the posotion of the wall??) for greater than 6 years then it's not your land anymore anyway. I wouldn't expect any windfall purchase from the new neighbour.

What does your solicitor say?

karron · 09/03/2013 16:35

I think as it's on the land registry it's yours unless the other house is not registered yet. Usage can no longer be used, as it was historically, to land grab as the registry now acts as a guarantee if it says you have it you do and if it's not mentioned it does. I would Speke to your solicitor.

karron · 09/03/2013 16:35

Speak

ivykaty44 · 09/03/2013 16:41

Land registry is online and you can for a small fee, it was£3.50 look at any house title deeds

Unless a house hasn't been sold since 1927 then it will be on the land registry and so the other house should also be outlined

You could ask the sellers to sort or drop price and reduce land

Take it as it is, but when you come to sell you may run into problems

Which ever it is though get solicitor to sort out and make it very clear

karron · 09/03/2013 17:07

Re read what I read and I meant if it does not mention something then you don't have it e.g. A right of way. I think you're right it's more an issue for who buys the other land than you. It's yours when you buy the house.

jammybean · 09/03/2013 18:09

Boundaries issues are a complete mine field.

I would expect the current owner to resolve the issues before purchase or as ivy said it would pose problems when you come to sell. You may be happy with it but someone else wouldn't.

The neighbour may not be keen on having the fence reinstated on the actual boundary especially if they have a smaller garden.

Our previous purchase fell through when it became apparent that the vendor who was also our next door neighbour had taken a 1.5 meter strip of our garden, narrow drive and an access route to the rear of the property. Then refused to come to a compromise.

Original poster
KindleMum · 09/03/2013 20:42

ivy and jammy - I'm sorry but I just don't get why it's a concern. I can see why it's a problem for the other house who could be asked to hand over some of their garden or pay us for it but I don't see why it's a negative issue for us.

The garden that has been actively marketed to us - ie that within the garden walls - is fine and is a good size and beautiful.

We will be talking to the solicitor about this anyway, I'm just trying to understand the issue before Monday. Wouldn't the solicitor have phoned if it was a big deal? They have sent us the land registry pics/maps with their letter already.

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Original poster
KindleMum · 09/03/2013 20:44

To be clear - the price has been based on the garden we saw within the walls, not this extra bit in next door's.

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LadyHarrietdeSpook · 09/03/2013 21:10

Ok. The way I see it, the next owners of that property could decide, if it suited them, that you have some responsibility for that land. And that could be a pain. It may not be obvious at the present time how that could arise (apart from maybe if they insisted that the wall wasn't safe), but the risk is there as long as the deeds remain as they currently are. It's something I would personally want to resolve.

If it were me buying the property FROM YOU what I would want, probably, is some context around how the land came to be sat inside what appear to be the neighbour's boundaries. Did it happen recently? Are they difficult? Could they decide that some other part of your property is up for grabs? Would I be dealing with people like jammybean encountered?

Is it likely that you can find out how this all came about? Could it be, for example, that the house is an old vicarage and the land was all historically owned by the church or was part of some other larger plot and all this happened yonks and yonks ago? I'm just trying to imagine a sensible sort of explanation.

jammybean · 09/03/2013 21:20

It's a concern because boundary issues are probably the largest cause of neighbour disputes. Personally I wouldn't want to have a disagreement with a potential neighbour before I've even moved in! Hence why the vendor should deal with it before exchange. Google boundary dispute and you'll find many examples of the lengths people go to over a few centimetres of land.

I'm no solicitor but if your happy with the current situation then you could get the bit of garden transferred to your neighbours title deeds. Problem solved? However as someone has already said, I doubt you'll get any money for it.

suebfg · 09/03/2013 21:24

In your position, I would steer well clear. There are plenty of properties without issues - why buy one with potential for issues?

ivykaty44 · 09/03/2013 21:27

I wouldn't want to buy a garden and be told I can only actually have 90 % of the actual garden by my neighbours

What happens if the neighbours refuse to let you have your garden back will you just give it to them and pay for the deeds to be altered in their favour?

jammybean · 09/03/2013 21:30

ivy my point exactly.

ravenAK · 09/03/2013 21:31

I can see it might be a problem if, after you've moved in, your neighbour decides to situate a leylandii or a pig pen on that bit of land. You object. It becomes clear that actually, it's your land. Ill feeling ensues all round.

Or a mineshaft opens up unexpectedly & the neighbour falls down it, then sues YOU because, technically, it's your land & you are somehow liable...

It's obviously better than the other way round (chunk of 'your' garden turns out to be on the neighbour's deeds) - but I think I'd still want it clarifying. If I didn't want/need the land, I'd probably offer to sell it to the neighbours for £1 or something just to keep everything simple?

Original poster
KindleMum · 09/03/2013 21:33

I can't see that there's any sensible explanation. It's a part of town that once contained the big posh houses and their grounds and then they got divided up (1950s I think). So in this case "our" house was part of the original garden of the other house and the neighbour to the side is the old coach house and to the other side the dower house. All of the garden walls are old old old charming historic walls. I can't imagine why the boundaries weren't drawn up to match the walls properly, as the walls are part of the original property. I guess the solicitor that day the property was divided was a bit slack?

We love this house. There are very few houses of the type we want in the area we want.

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MisForMumNotMaid · 09/03/2013 21:35

If you have a mortgage then the boundaries are redrawn, down the line as they actually are, this potentially could cause a revaluation and effect the mortgage rate you're able to get

Original poster
KindleMum · 09/03/2013 21:38

ivy/jammy - you're missing the point that this extra bit of potential garden was not something we expected and is not something we've paid for in that sense. Existing neighbours actually I probably would agree to sign it over but if the property is being bought by a developer which is more likely, then I'd be inclined to expect to be paid for it.

I'm now wondering about indemnity insurance.

The people selling to us are elderly and have had a stroke. They're not going to be capable of sorting this out, if they were they wouldn't be selling, they're leaving because they need to.

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Original poster
KindleMum · 09/03/2013 21:40

We don't have a mortgage.

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MisForMumNotMaid · 09/03/2013 21:40

Sorry thats looking very negatively. We had boundary issues over our current house during purchase. In the end land registry and neighbours from both sides along with sellers and neighbours solicitors battled it out. We sat back whilst it happened but when we moved in the neighbours were still very bruised by the ordeal. They gained land by the end result but it cost them all a lot of money and stress.

ivykaty44 · 09/03/2013 21:41

No I didn't miss the point that this is an added bonus

You are though missing the point

Are you happy to pay the solicitor to change the deeds to give it to the neighbour

Original poster
KindleMum · 09/03/2013 21:42

Mis - how long did that all take?

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suebfg · 09/03/2013 21:43

I know it's hard when you have your heart set on a property and then find something out during searches etc. But the honest advice I can give you, from someone who ploughed on ahead anyway and thought oh it will be OK, is that if it isn't OK, it could cause you a real headaches in the future or worse. It just isn't worth the risk but that's ultimately your decision.

MisForMumNotMaid · 09/03/2013 21:49

About four months I believe. If your neighbours are happy for a simple transfer it can all be done in about 6 weeks and with minimal costs. If you look on the land registry website you can see the guidelines on partial transfer of land. It doesn't need be complex if everyone agrees.

Original poster
KindleMum · 09/03/2013 21:54

The neighbours is currently up for sale at £700k. I still think the problem is mainly theirs to be honest as it's going to be a bigger stumbling block for them when they find a buyer as they're the ones with land within their wall that they don't own. And no, when they're asking 700K I'm certainly not going to be paying the legal fees for them, they can pay it themselves if they want title.

4 months sounds surprisingly good for a fraught situation mis!

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suebfg · 09/03/2013 21:57

We only ended up with trouble when the neighbours sold their land. The thing is that you don't know what they are saying to prospective buyers so the people who ultimately buy their property may have a completely different view of the facts. Ripe territory for a dispute.