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Radiator problems - replace them, chemical flush or power flush?

16 replies

thetigerwhocametoteax · 11/02/2013 18:24

We recently moved into our new house, a 200 year old cottage and having issues with our radiators. The house was previously 2 cottages and has been knocked into one - half the house has new radiators that seem to work pretty well, the other half has older radiators and some of them are really not warming up. We are on oil central heating and had the boiler serviced last month.

We have had several plumbers come out and I am confused as they are all saying different things. One has said to replace the two radiators that are not warming properly. Another recommended a chemical flush via the water tank. Finally the chap today said a power flush would be best to get all radiators working better. I suspect there is a problem with silt / sludge in the system as we had to remove a radiator from the wall to replaster it and the water leaking from it looks very grimey. I am sure its not an exact science but with all the options being quite expensive I'd love any advice / experience from you knowledgeable lot before we decide which to do! Thanks Grin

OP posts:
CointreauVersial · 11/02/2013 19:21

Watching this one, as we have similarly dodgy radiators....

specialsubject · 11/02/2013 20:32

advice I had was to find the cold spots on the radiators, having bled them first. If there is a cold area at the bottom, in a bell curve, then you may have silt in them. One suggestion is to take them off, take them outside and flush them with a hosepipe.

if they are very old or leaking, replacing them may be good - especially if they need painting as that never works.

there may also be an issue of balancing the system - I'll stop there as that is all I know but maybe someone else will leap in.

PipeDreams · 11/02/2013 22:56

Leaping!

A good powerflush using a magnetic filter will clean the radiators, pipework and give your boiler a nice clean too.

Draining it down will get out some of the muck but not all and won't clean the pipework (especially under the floors) or the boiler. Removing radiators won't clean the pipework either.

Powerflushing won't cure problems with system balancing and it won't give you new radiators but it would be a good start.

Out of the three solutions I think your first is looking for an easy (although not necessarily long term) solution, your second is without flushing equipment and the third probably has your best interests at heart.

special you are correct in your advice with cold spots. If the radiators are cold at the top then they need bleeding/further attention, if they are cold at the bottom/middle then it is debris build up in the rad.

Hope that helps, any questions just let me know!

Dennis

PoppyWearer · 11/02/2013 23:05

Very useful, thank you OP and thank you PipeDreams and all. Having similar problems here too.

PigletJohn · 11/02/2013 23:38

You could start with the cheapest and easiest approach. Start by fitting a system filter on the return pipe next to the boiler, bale out all the mud from the feed and expansion tank in the loft, and add a chemical cleaner such as Sentinel X400, and run it through the system for the prescribed period. This may be hours or weeks depending on the product. I would avoid aggressive acidic cleaners. The day you add it, turn off all the radiators except one, then all except the next, for half an hour each, to maximimise the flow and help disturb the sediment. The system filter will trap the particles that have been loosened, so you need to start off by emptying it daily. When there is only a smear of sediment being trapped, empty it once a week, then double the period between empties each time there is not much dirt, until it is only once a year. Emptying the system filter is a DIY job, like emptying your vacuum cleaner bag or the filter on your washing machine.

At the end of the period specified for the cleaning chemical, drain and rinse the system until it comes out clean, then refill using a corrosion inhibiting chemical.

This simple approach will not be as effective as a Powerflush, but it will be hundreds of pounds cheaper, so is always worth trying first. The system filter will trap any circulating particles in future and prevent sediment building up into any new blockages.

If you are strong and fond of simple plumbing, take the radiators outside and hose them through to wash out the loose sediment. You will be amazed how much there is.

When you have cleaned it, put aside a weekend for balancing the radiators carefully and thoroughly. It is simple but not a ten-minute job.

CointreauVersial · 12/02/2013 16:49

Pigletjohn, balancing rads is some sort of Black Art, I think. I don't think any plumber has managed to get all our radiators working at once!

We do have one which only heats in one small area, so I imagine that one is gummed up with something.

This system filter you speak of....is it a large thing?

PigletJohn · 12/02/2013 17:43

maybe six to ten inches high

for example

I would go for the Sentinel or the Fernox or the Spirotech.

The Magnaclean was the first one to hit the mass market, but it has a poor reputation for leaks, and is made of plastic. It does work spectacularly well for several months, maybe a year or two, until it starts leaking.

CointreauVersial · 12/02/2013 20:47

Hmm....

And I've heard that power flushing can cause leaks, by causing weak points in your pipework to fail. Is this likely?

thetigerwhocametoteax · 12/02/2013 21:21

Thanks all! Really appreciate your advice. Have had a good think over all options and had a quote today for a powerflush and think we'll go for that then balancing the system out. Fingers crossed we'll be toasty warm after sorting this heating out!

OP posts:
CointreauVersial · 12/02/2013 23:14

OP, can I be cheeky and ask what sort of ££ you pay for a power flush?

PigletJohn · 13/02/2013 00:17

You haven't got any microbore pipes, I hope?

PipeDreams · 13/02/2013 01:39

CointreauVersial Good questions! Powerflushing is not likely to damage your existing systems due to the low pressures created by the powerflushing pump.

Powerflushing works on a low pressure/high flow basis and aims to hold any pollutants in the water/cleaner solution allowing them to be disposed off at various times during the process.

If powerflushing does cause a leak (I've never seen it happen IRL, neither have any plumbing friends/colleagues) then it is very likely that it was going to happen in the very near future and it's best to have a leak when your plumber's there.

Costs vary according to area and plumber but you should be looking around £350-£500 dependant on your system size and your plumbers day rate. Large ex-nationalised gas companies will charge more.

It will take most of a day to complete a powerflush on a relatively dirty 10 radiator system therefore the majority of the cost is labour.

+1 for the Fernox TF1 if you are thinking about installing a mechanical/magnetic filter. It's really easy to clean and doesn't have the Magnaclean's re-sealing issues.

Hope that helps!

Dennis

CointreauVersial · 13/02/2013 13:16

Thanks for the info, really really useful (and sorry, OP for blatant threadjacking).

PJ - what's a microbore pipe? I do know that in the back half of our house the central heating pipework is narrower than it should be (thanks to the bodge-it builder who lived here before - therein lie a few of our problems with flow, methinks), but not "micro" as such.....

PigletJohn · 13/02/2013 13:27

Microbore pipe is the size of a pencil, and usually was fitted where the installation saved the cost of taking up floors and left it on show. It needs a pair of pipes per raduator, run back to a distribution manifold. It prevents powerflushing from working.

You might have the other problem where several rads are fed off a single 15mm pipe. As a rule of thumb, 22mm pipes should run round the house, with 15mm pipes teed off it for each radiator.

It is very common for cheap extensions or conversions to add several rads onto the old 15mm pipe that was intended to supply a single rad. This leads to great disappointment.

CointreauVersial · 13/02/2013 13:39

No, tis not microbore, but I fear the other scenario you describe is exactly the case.

And "great disappointment" describes accurately the effectiveness of our central heating at the moment. Two out of the three rads in the living room simply don't heat up (one is silted, for sure).

Never buy a house from a builder. Grin

PigletJohn · 13/02/2013 13:54

A system filter is a terrific help at preventing future sediment blockages. You will be amazed and delighted at how much it traps.

But on its own it will not remove existing clogs.

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