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Original poster

Is my Landlord being fair?

38 replies

TwoGrey · 13/12/2012 13:19

DH and I lost out on a property we were trying to buy at the last minute so we decided to rent in the new area in the short term. We still want to buy a house and although we've been actively looking we haven't yet found the right one. Our tenancy is coming to an end and so we have asked the Landlord if we can have a rolling contract so that we can leave with a couple of months notice once we've found a house to buy.

The Landlord has said that he wants to sell the flat (we want a house so not interested in buying it) and wants us to agree to viewings. The only concession he has made is that he's agreed not to increase the rent, but we will have to put up with people been shown around at the weekend and during the week when we are at work. My DH thinks that its a fair arrangement because if we had to leave this flat we would have to move to a new rented place and sign up for a minimum period. I think it's not reasonable as it'll save him having the flat empty while he tries to sell it which will save him a fortune. I am right aren't I?

OP posts:

Hoppingforsun · 13/12/2012 13:21

It's for you and your landlord to freely negotiate. You can say to your LL that you won't take viewings and he might say in that case you need to leave. OTOH he might roll over and say fine. There is no "right" or "wrong". Talk to your LL openly and reasonably. TBH not increasing your rent at a time of rising rents, in return for you doing some viewings seems reasonable. If there IS a price for which you would be willing, then name it eg a 10% reduction in the rent. It is completely up to the LL whether he accepts your offer. He might as it avoids new agency fees and an empty property over Christmas.

Original poster

TwoGrey · 13/12/2012 14:12

Unfortunately I don't have his contact details, it's all going via the letting agent who has implied that we are being unreasonable.

OP posts:

SunnyUpNorth · 13/12/2012 14:27

You say you will save him a fortune while he is trying to sell it, but if you refuse viewings he won't be able to sell it so you're not really doing him a favour just postponing the void period for him.

Obviously as it is not your house to sell you won't be too bothered about tidying up for viewings etc so if they are conducting viewings when you are at work then it shouldn't affect you tool much.

It may be worth being accommodating as you want him to accommodate you on a basis which suits you, ie a rolling contract, so there is no long term security there for him. I think in this instance it would be worth both being flexible otherwise you may find if he is keen to sell he just ends the tenancy anyway and you have to sign up for another longer let or pay a premium for a short term let.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 13/12/2012 14:30

Your tenancy may be coming to an end, but has your LL given you two months notice? If not, you're on a rolling contract anyway.

Original poster

TwoGrey · 13/12/2012 14:34

Not yet apparently the deadline for two months notice is Wednesday the letting agent said it needs to be agreed by then.

OP posts:

KindleMum · 13/12/2012 14:34

IME it's standard to have to allow viewings in reasonable hours. You'd be out of pocket if you have to move and then move again so I'd stay put if I was you.

If there are specific times that aren't suitable, you ought to be able to negotiate that. The last property I was in, we said nothing after 6pm as I didn't want people around when the children were being got ready for bed (with the winter nights, few people want to view in the evenings anyway) but it's not reasonable to refuse viewings for the whole weekend as that's when most potential buyers can view.

rednellie · 13/12/2012 14:52

Have been a tenant and a landlord in similar situations. I think your LL is making a completely reasonable request and echo other posters that if there is a time of day that doesn't suit let the agents know.

Can't see what the problem is really.

worsestershiresauce · 13/12/2012 15:30

Allowing viewings during the last two months of an assured shorthold tenancy is standard and considered reasonable. By letting you stay on a rolling monthly basis he is helping you out, as if you moved you'd have to pay an agent's fee and commit to a 6 month contract elsewhere. I think he is being entirely reasonable, however if you don't, move. It will cost you more financially but you will have less disturbance (bear in mind your new LL will probably require you to allow tenancy viewings at the end of your contract anyway).

FergusSingsTheBlues · 13/12/2012 15:37

Its usually included in short term assured contract in Scotland, and as a landlord, id expect people to be reasonable about it. But you are entitled to 24 hours notice and if something is not suitable i'd say you have the right to try and agree a better time esp at the weekend. Dont forget as well, that you have asked him for a rolling contract so are benefitting from his flexibility too. Also, given the market, i doubt you would be flooded with viewings anyway so I doubt it would be all that disruptive.

specialsubject · 13/12/2012 16:39

you are legally entitled to contact details for your landlord.

compromise; viewing 'windows' - one weekend afternoon and one weekday evening, with notice of course. In the current market you are not going to find the place being over run.

FunnysFuckingFreezing · 13/12/2012 16:45

OP I really don't get your logic at all. Are you saying that you will refuse to allow viewings? If that's the case your LL will presumably just ask you to leave if he needs to sell. Is that the outcome you hope for?

Original poster

TwoGrey · 13/12/2012 17:39

Ok so hands up its a reverse thread, I'm the Landlord and I wanted to check if I was being unrealistic. We have said that we are happy to restrict viewings to set times at the tenants convenience, we appreciate that they've got a young child and weekends are precious. However they have said that is too inconvenient to have viewings but still want me to agree to a rolling contract. It's of no benefit to me to agree to the rolling contract unless they agree to the viewings so I think they've left me with no choice but to issue the notice on Wednesday. I thought I my suggestion was fair.

OP posts:

FergusSingsTheBlues · 13/12/2012 18:18

Tell the cheeky mares to leave, then!

1605 · 13/12/2012 18:23

Issue the S21.

Never sell a property with tenants in situ if you want the best price.

You've offered a compromise to the tenants, and they've refused it. Clearly they'd prefer to vacate instead, which is their lookout.

KindleMum · 13/12/2012 18:33

Ahhhh. Well then....unless you're marketing mainly at buy to let landlords, then I'd agree with 1605. People who plan to live in the property are often put off by a tenant in situ. We're buying at the moment and I wouldn't spend any money on searches or surveys while a tenant's in there. Lots of people won't even make an offer because of it.

StiffyByng · 13/12/2012 18:46

Frankly, every house I viewed with a tenant in it was a pigsty, and that can be hard to see beyond. Your tenants are probably not as bad, as the ones I saw tended to be houseshares, but a well-presented unlived-in flat is likely to be your better option.

WeAreEternal · 13/12/2012 18:56

Tell them to leave, definitely.

Your house will sell quicker w/o the tennants (I know from experience)
Plus the are being completely unreasonable, they can't refuse viewings when they don't plan to stay and don't want to buy because it is 'inconvenient'.
It would be different if you were just trying to find new tennants but you don't so get them out of your house and get it sold quickly.

Solopower1 · 13/12/2012 19:00

If I was your tenant I would leave anyway. Trying to buy a house is, I believe, such a stressful time that the last thing you need is a landlord who is bringing people to view your home at weekends.

It could take your tenants much longer than 6 months to find a place to buy. But if you found a buyer for your flat, your tenants would be out anyway, wouldn't they?

A good rule of thumb is do as you would be done by, I think. Having been given two months' notice by my previous landlord 2 weeks before Christmas, I can give the other point of view. I was out in a week, needless to say - and his property was empty for six months before he sold it.

Could you not wait until the New Year to sell? It sounds as if you are having doubts about whether it is reasonable to give your tenants notice just before Christmas. I don't think it is.

rednellie · 13/12/2012 19:04

Yeah, tell them to go. That's absurd. I also enjoyed the reverse thread subterfuge. Sad, I know

We had viewings in a flat with tenants in and the sale went through fine at a good price. But they were reasonable tenants and actually, it worked in all our favours as the sale took a while to go through and their next flat didn't work out so we all saved a bit of money by them staying a month longer. I wish you had such good tenants! Makes life a lot easier.

FergusSingsTheBlues · 13/12/2012 19:04

Its not always feasible though, to leave a house empty for what could be up to a year. I waited til my last tenant left before advertising as she had a total attitude and i knew she would be obstructive. The tenants before that were dirty bastards and i would ot have let anybody over the threshold. Couldnt afford to do that if i were trying to sell.

FergusSingsTheBlues · 13/12/2012 19:06

Solopower, it is the law that tenants facilitate viewings within reason, there is nothing wrong with that at all.

GreenEggsAndNichts · 13/12/2012 19:06

I'm a tenant in a house where the landlady has decided to sell. It's all very amicable, we've been good tenants for a few years and honestly it was time for us to buy our own place, anyway. (Not buying this one as if we're buying we'd like a bit more space etc) She's not issued us our 2-month notice yet. I know she'd sell this place a lot quicker if we were gone, and she's probably been told as much by the EA, so I appreciate that she's not given us notice as that would make our move more hectic than it needs to be. We've found a place, though, and might even own it within a few weeks.

Anyway. Personally, I wouldn't like someone doing viewings when I wasn't home. That might be because the EA in our case will only do viewings when we're home, so I'm used to it. I try to schedule them when our 3 yo DS is at preschool. Have bent over backwards to make sure they get their viewings as soon as is possible after they ask. I'm not sure how far my goodwill will stretch once the holidays are upon us, though! I hope they don't think they'll find a showhome to view during the week or two my DH will be off work and we're all lazing about the place!

I'm not really going anywhere with this, except to say perhaps you could ask if you can do viewings if one of them is present? If you've already done this, and they've vetoed it, yes I think you'll just have to give them notice. I say this as someone in their position, obviously.

jinglebellyalltheway · 13/12/2012 19:10

when I lived in a flat that was for sale, we asked if viewings could be on saturdays and 2 weekdays during hours of our choice.

this suited everyone, the agent didn't have to give us notice every time as he knew that 10am on sat was always fine, we knew we had guarenteed viewing free days 4 days a week when we could sit in our pants if we wanted to, and the land lord benefited because we always made sure it looked nice on those 3 days (as the sooner someone liked it the sooner the viewings started)

possible viewings 7 days a week is a bit much IMO and I wouldn't have been as good at getting the place viewing ready if the land lord had insisted on that!

Solopower1 · 13/12/2012 19:12

Fergus, I know it's the law, and I think it's reasonable to expect tenants to facilitate viewings within reason. This thread is about what is reasonable.

All I'm saying is have some compassion. How will two weeks make a difference to anyone - except the poor family who have their notice to quit hanging over them all Christmas?

jinglebellyalltheway · 13/12/2012 19:14

"(as the sooner someone liked it the sooner the viewings started)"
the sooner they STOPPED!

(it sold to a buy to letter who was impressed that it was so easily filled with tennants as nice and tidy as us now if she'd have seen it on the other 4 days she mightn't have been so keen

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