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No paperwork for work done pre-1980s - reason for concern?

14 replies

audrey01 · 21/11/2012 21:14

We're in the process of buying an unmodernised house, which had some work done (through lounge on the ground floor and converting a smaller 3rd bedroom into an en-suite bathroom on the first floor). The sellers claim that all this work was done in the 70s prior to their ownership and they do not have any paperwork relating to this, insisting that it is sound and safe as it withstood the test of time for more than 40 years. They also refuse to give us some sort of indemnity insurance for the same reason that the council will not be able to bring any enforcing action after such a long time.

Would this concern you as a purchaser? What will happen when it comes to sell in the future, won't our potential buyers request the same? can we also have grounds to refuse any indemnity for work that was done prior to our ownership?

Also, the conversion of the bedroom into en-suite bathroom - the sellers insist that the door opening that is now connecting the en-suite to the main bedroom was not done into a load-bearing wall, and so there was no need to notify the council to seek Building Regulations. Is this true? I thought there must be some rules when adding to a house in terms of additional drainage and waste pipes, as this en-suite bathroom is on the opposite side of the existing family bathroom on the same floor, and additional pipes had to be connected to main sewer.

What would you do? Are we fretting for nothing? Our solicitor seems to agree with the sellers that it's OK not to have the proper paperwork. To us, this purchase would be quite a sizeable investment to make and I wouldn't want to proceed without all the T's crossed and I's dotted.

OP posts:
Itsjustafleshwound · 21/11/2012 21:20

Personally, if the sellers are unwilling to give you a legal indemnity I would find out what the cost would be to get this and knock it off the price.

I think it is more an issue of what risk you want to take ...

psychomum5 · 21/11/2012 21:21

well, It is normal not to have paperwork for things done that long ago. It wasn;t like it is now with all the health and safety regs.

and who would keep paperwork that long anyway, even if they had had it?? Do you still have receipts for things done on your house more than 10yrs ago )for eg), Or even for items you purchased more than 1yr ago? (well, unless you took out insurance on it).

and seriously, who would you complain to if the work was done that long ago and it now breaks?? It would probably break just out of 30plus years of usage. Not through shoddy work. Which actually isn;t shoddy work as it has lasted 30 plus years!!!

If you are in any way concerned either don;t buy the property or pay for a super sleuth inspector to check it all out.

whatatwat · 21/11/2012 22:27

if it was done before they purchased, and before current thoughts, and regulations were in place then why would they have this information?

TalkinPeace2 · 21/11/2012 22:54

look it up on the planning portal .....

senua · 21/11/2012 23:04

I presume that you had a survey done. Did the surveyor express any concern?

audrey01 · 22/11/2012 00:35

Thank you all for your replies.

TalkinPeace - no, there's no info related to this property on the planning portal. The house, according to the sellers, has not been touched since the 70's.

Senua - yes, we had a full structural survey and the surveyor recommended that we ask to see planning consent for the through lounge. The sellers insist they don't have it as it was done before their ownership. Ok, fair enough, they don't have it, but nowadays you don't buy a house without the proper paperwork, hence our request for an indemnity insurance to cover all this. They refused.

OP posts:
redandwhitesprinkles · 22/11/2012 01:49

I sold my house with no paperwork for work I had done and I bought the indemnity insurance for the buyer.

However, my house had been knocked through before my time and I wouldn't have paid for that. Planning wouldn't be interested in that anyway if not a listed property as it is internal, it might not comply with current building regs but if it is still standing I wouldn't worry.

You buy the insurance if you are that bothered.

audrey01 · 22/11/2012 12:55

To the poster above - your post is contradictory - you bought the indemnity insurance for your buyer. Yet, you advise I buy that insurance if I'm that bothered.

Why should I incur extra costs for their lack of paperwork?

My only concern is that if we sell this property at a later stage, I would have the same problem as the sellers now. On another thread, I've seen mortgage companies refusing to release financing to prospective buyers if the house does not have proper paper trail.

Is this indemnity insurance the one-all, be-all in this case? Is it worth the piece of paper it is written on?

OP posts:
Kendodd · 22/11/2012 13:04

The work is thirty plus years old, I would just buy the house if I wanted it. If it causes problems when you sell then just buy some insurance then.

Besides, what exactly would you be insuring? That the through lounge doesn't collapse? Do you really think it likely after thirty years apparently problem free?

poppyboo · 22/11/2012 13:58

Lack of paperwork can cause problems when trying to re-sell.

fussychica · 22/11/2012 14:57

I am surprised lack of paperwork of this nature would cause problems when trying to re-sell. We bought a 1970s place last year when we returned from abroad and nothing was ever raised about any work done - new windows, conservatory etc by the previous owners. My DH has knocked a wall down between the loo & bathroom (not load bearing) and will be refitting bathroom & kitchen - are you saying I would need some sort of paper trail for this?

KazzaRazza · 22/11/2012 15:17

I wouldn't be concerned by the lack of paperwork.

It all sounds like long term established work.

If you are worried then I would recommend you buy the indemnity insurance.

audrey01 · 22/11/2012 19:32

My husband and I discussed it over and we decided we should not be put off by the lack of paperwork. The solicitor has asked again for an indemnity insurance and the seller reluctantly agreed. In any case, we plan to do further renovation/refurbishment (loft conversion, side extension, etc.) to the house, so hopefully if/when it comes to sell, we can show all the necessary paperwork for the work that we will have done.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

OP posts:
senua · 23/11/2012 11:20

we had a full structural survey

So if there is a structral problem then you sue on the Surveyor's PII. And you said in your OP that there should be no problem with planning permission because the Council cannot enforce after such a long time.
Also, as you say, if you are doing major works then that will rather supsede the 1970s work.

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