Gas Central Heating - Is it really worth getting installed?

[MmeLindor]

We have moved into a house which needs LOTS of work.

New windows, bathroom, kitchen, flooring.. the works.

We have electric storage heaters at present and I have just had the first bill. For the 6 weeks we have owned the house (although we didn't move into the house for 2 weeks so it is actually usage for 4 weeks) - £120

Now, when we were staying with my parents I paid their electric/gas bills and they came to £130, which was always a little over-payment but not loads. They have gas central heating and almost identical house.

I know that we will use more electricity in the winter, but don't yet know how much but even if we were to go up to £150 it would still not be much more than my parents are paying.

Installing GCH is going to cost about £3 - 4k.

if we 'save' £20 a month for a year, that is £240. The investment doesn't make sense, does it?

I am assuming that gas prices have risen so much, and that is why my parents pay so much. Is this going to be about gambling on the rise in energy prices?

We are also considering installing a wood burning oven in the living room / dining room, where we spend most of our time.

Morally
No, we didn't go for the tiger house. Wonder if it has sold yet.

It is really a matter of getting as much as we can done within our budget. We don't know how long we will be here. Hopefully longer, but that will depend on DH's job.

Shrinking
maybe my parents pay far too much then? They pay £130 for a 3 bed house nearby. That is what is making me wonder.

MrsM
That was a meter reading, not an estimate.

Have looked into the pellet stove - there is something coming in next month in Scotland, some kind of gov initiative.

Make sure you have a steady and reliable supply of pellets, my brother installed a pellet burner 4 years ago but had difficulty finding a pellet supplier so the boiler was removed after 1 year and replaced by a wood burner.

Your bills (and parents) sound very high.

Gas and electricity bills for last Quarter (12 weeks) in 2 bed semi have been £70 each. I work from home so even in summer will sometimes have heat on.

Average Winter bill per Quater is roughly £300 each gas and electric

Your usage (in summer) is already £360 per quarter - sounds really high.

Maybe time to check alternative suppliers too as well as install Gas CH!

Edited to correct - my avergae winter bills are Gas £300 ish per quarter

Electric doesn't really change much (because I have Gas CH) just extra use of lights - so goes up to maybe £90/100 per quarter.

Not much more than your summer usage would be per quarter - so definitely something worth investigating on the supplier side there

Yes but summer in Scotland! We're in Scotland and it has rained every single day for 3 weeks. It's freezing so we've had the heating on already.

I'd be very concerned at paying £120 for the last 4 weeks (OK, might be slightly colder in Scotland, but I@ve not had heating on here). I pay less than that for elec and gas combined for a 6 bed, high ceilinged Victorian house full of teenagers who have to be plugged in to 3 gadgets at a time and rarely turn anything off!
I had storage heaters in my first home and I'd never go back to them, The lack of control is infuriating (and cold, if you've not 'guesstimated' right). The cost is high, and I agree with the air being 'dry' somehow.
Agree with others, it would be a definite turn off for me if a house didn't have central heating these days, I'd probably not even view it.
I'd look at the much bigger picture than just £/year you will save. Look at the comfort for you and your family, and look at the 'investing in your property' angle too.

We're still resisting putting on the heating.

Which is why I am sitting here on the "warm" side of the house (ie the side that gets the sun) and with a chunky Icelandic cardigan on ;)

BackforGood how on earth is your combined that low? We have a five bed (two in the loft) 30s semi and we've just had our payment reduced from £250 a month to £227. Admitedly this was with the heating I mentioned earlier that has no thermostat and last winter we had no double glazing but still!

We pay around £130 per month combined for a modern 4 bed house - we both work at home a lot so the heating/lighting is on quite a lot.

I can't beleive how high your bills are.
4 bed detached here, £65/month, combined gas and electric.
I'm sitting here in a teeshirt, and the heating hasn't been on yet. Are we strange? If so, MmeLindor, please ignore my previous comments, as I obviously have either a very strange house, or a very strange internal thermostat (along with the rest of my family)

The electricity prices here are insane and very difficult to decipher.
We were £800 for a quarter in a super insulated tiny cabin which is heated by a wood burning stove and no radiators.

I have been speaking to one of those companies who do insulation today and was told that they have just finished insulating several Perthshire castles and large mansion houses for free. I am annoyed as some of the more modest houses on these estates are not receiving free insulation eg they may have partial old insulation for 1/2 an attic but not a full attic or bats (no insulation for bat homes).

October is going to bring in an external wall insulation system here so apply while you can before all the castles get wrapped. Scottish electricity prices have risen dramatically as the money for windfarm subsidies is covered by the consumer. Very high levels of fuel poverty here.

Also, it is worthwhile thinking about Warmcel which is fire retardant and scooshed in behind the plasterboard.

HaplessHousewife - I don't think it's that unusual. I do shop around each year and make sure I have the best deal, but, tbh, it was the same figure as last year with a different company. In fact, the person I speak to (once I've done the searching on line) has said to me on more than one occasion that we are in the 'high user' bracket for our electricity.

Adding extra insulation should be your priority - it gives the biggest returns on your investments. After that, GCH would be preferred option - yes, gas prices will go up, but so will electricity prices. If you don't want to go down that road because of budget considerations I would suggest ditching storage heaters and getting thermostatic controlled electric panel heaters on an Economy 10 tariff (Scottish Hydro does these, but you have to hunt for it). It will probably cost as much to install a woodburner as GCH and unless you are handy with a chain saw and can buy in whole logs or have a DH who spends his days tramping the countryside wood costs can be quite high as well (last winter we had to buy in seasoned wood at around £500 for the winter)

can only add, that storage heaters a pita. they give you heat at the wrong time, and are not easy to just turn up when you need a boost. you can't.

if you do keep them, make sure you are on economy seven, and that they have the rates the correct way round. There is a day rate and a night on ecomomy 7, and just recently a friend's elec company had inadvertently swapped the two and she had been paying a shedload of money.

Also bare in mind that your mid winter storage heating will be much more expensive.

GO
I phoned the people about the insulation - they were supposed to be getting back to me weeks ago and I haven't heard anything. Daft, that they are wrapping castles though.

Am looking into the pellet thing, which has higher initial costs but there seem to be some kind of gov support.

Those of you who have such low bills - what temp do you keep your rooms at? My preferred temp is about 21°C so if you are all at 18°C then I am not surprised your bills are lower.

I haven't even looked at shopping around, or checking which rates we are on. Will do that tomorrow.

Thanks all for the great advice. It is v helpful. Even if you are not telling me what I want to hear.

I had an electrician in today to put up some lights and shift a socket or two. He reckons we will need the house rewired. Meh

We never go over 20 degrees here, more like 16/17. We're hard Fifers!

at your house temperature, Piff.

I'm a big jessie townie and like my house a great deal warmer than that.

Mme L, I was thinking about this at 6am (as you do). Are you sure you are comparing apples with apples with your parents' bills? As long time bill payers, they may well pay a flat amount per month so in summer you would have been overpaying.

No no no to storage heaters.we are renting a house with them ATM ad last winter was a nightmare!

Of course you should have GCH unless you have no gas.

In England, you can have free loft and cavity wall insulation from BG or various electrity suppliers or the council - go to their websites.

If you think electric storage will be controllable you are wrong.

If you think electric will be cheap you are wrong

If you think wood will be clean or easy you are wrong

If you are tricked into buying magic electric heaters that pretend to produce more heat for less power you will be out of pocket for ever

If you spend on solar you will probably be out of pocket for ten to twenty years

How old is the CH in your Mum's house? Worth remembering that any system you have installed now would likely be more efficient than that one as technology moves on so quickly - the older her system the more difference you will see in terms of cost and efficiency. That coupled with the insulation improvements you're considering would likely make the CH a much better option.

We pay £179/month for gas and electricity. It'll be going up as it's with EDF and no currently fixed reminds self that must look at Energy suppliers again

That's for a drafty Victorian stone villa, four large rooms and two small room on one floor with 13ft high ceilings and 3 rooms on the attic floor. We're also at home during the day, so that means when it's very cold, the heating is on all day. Like to keep the temperature comfortable (above 20! ) in the evenings but freeze wear warm clothing and travel rugs/move about in the day before putting the heating on.

Not a combi boiler so we have to heat water separately for the hot water tank (so in summer that's all the boiler is used for).

It's an ancient boiler (was already old when we moved in 13 years ago) but although we keep on trying to get quotes to replace it NOT from Scottish Gas , the central heating engineers keep on refusing to do so as it's a good, solid, RELIABLE boiler.

Are you're comparing your actual usage in August with your DP's annualised Direct Debit that includes the winter months?

My annualised Direcrt Debit for gas is less that £40 per month averaged over the year.

In summer my gas usage costs 20p per day for hot water, plus the standing charge.

I have a reasonably modern 3-storey house that is well-insulated, and a modern boiler with a programmable thermsotat.

Actual usage in August was £120.

Parents annualised payments £130

But we had the heating on in August cause it was cold. Not as high obviously as it would be in Nov but it wasn't off.

Am looking into all options atm, and referring a decision till after the winter. I do think that we will get it done. As with the rewiring - it doesn't make sense to rip everythign up and not do this basic work.

Got first plans for kitchen and LOVE them, so that is good news. Got to see about prices. Any recommendations, oh Wise Women of MN?

Stealth
I am glad that you are applying yourself to my problem, even wakening at 6am to consider it ;)