Aarrgh!! Buying a mansion block flat in London, but the survey has just come back saying there's subsidence.

[NatureAbhorsAHoover]

Does anyone have any experience with subsidence in 100-year old blocks of flats (as opposed to houses?) Is it fixable, and what's it likely to cost?

The really annoying thing is that we live in the same block as the flat we're buying and have been here for over five years now, and I can say with some confidence that it's not falling down any time soon , it's a lovely mansion block in very good shape. I still want to go ahead with the purchase... but I think the bank is now likely to refuse the mortgage? It's share of freehold.

Step away. Costs potentially astronomical, no guarantee of getting work done, leaving you with a property you may be unable to sell for same reasons.

I live in a mansion block where there was subsidence but it was rectified and we have full building insurance. Service charge may skyrocket due to fixing it and possible increase in insurance. Have a look at the accounts and ask the management if the work has gone out to tender so that you can work out a cost per flat. Out of interest, what postcode?

What does the survey actually say? Does it point to firm evidence of subsidence or say that there may have been and you need to investigate further (which they nearly all do, especially in London where a lot of the subsoils are clay)?

What lalal said.

You could get a survey by a structural engineer.

I would be deterred from buying somewhere that was experiencing current live subsidence not yet resolved.

But it should be covered by the buildings insurance for the block - the usual arrangement is that then the excess for any further claims for subsidence goes up and you have to stay tied to the insurance company that did the work.

Have you asked the current owners and the freeholders / management if there has been any subsidence or claims or remedial work?

If you are in S London PM me and I could give you the name of the structural engineer who did a report on my house when buyers thought it had subsidence (it didn't - typical settling over a lintel or something) and then looked at a house I was buying that had had remedial work for historical subsidence.

Get your solicitor to ask the other freeholders or the management co they run or employ?

Thanks for the helpful replies. The flat is in W9 and this is all based on a RICS HomeBuyer report, the surveyor hasn't seen the structural engineers report and neither have we, still waiting on the vendor or the managing agent to provide that, along with details about insurance

The survey says "extreme risk of further movement which will require extensive and expensive repair... we would recommend against proceeding further"

But surely if it's a block of flats, you're not going to be liable for hundreds of thousands of pounds for repairs? Wouldn't it be a much smaller sum that you could haggle off the purchase price?

I'm trying not to get emotional about it but having lived in this block so long, I know that it's fundamentally sound and not falling down around our ears like the damn survey seems to think

the problem is your survey says there is subsidence. unless you get a structural report to say there either is, or isnt, you cant take action, or ask/force the insurers/managing agents/freeholders to either. I think also, it would be difficult for you to ask for money off from the vendor ont he basis of a homebuyers reprot.

So you need to pay for a structural report. And your solicitor needs to see the insurance policy to see whether subsidence is covered and what the excess is.

also i sympathise that you dont believe there are problems, but you arent a surveyor, so might not recognise the signs.

OUt of interest, are you the first people to put an offer in or has the flat been on the market before and fallen through?

apols for the shocking typos!

her thank you for the very good advice - I know, you're right, it's actually not really relevant what I think as the surveyor/engineer opinions are the ones that count as far as the bank is concerned and really that's all there is to it . But my heart is breaking just a bit... we were the first to offer on this flat but we offered the day after it came on the market, as good places go in a nanosecond here. Spent nearly a year looking around this part of W9 and got to see this one early as we have a good friend working at the estate agents and thought we were so lucky to get it . DH is being very dispassionate about it all, but I want to cry.

waiting on the engineer's report still, and talking to neighbours who are at the idea that we have subsidence in our block.

You won't get a mortgage on anything that has a report that says, I wouldn't think, unless a more detailed structural report refutes it.

If there is subsidence and current movement it shouldn't cost the owners thousands at all, because it should be covered by the buildings insurance. However, it could be extremely inconvenient and unpleasant. I have no idea how it might be dealt with in flats but my neighbours had to move out of their house while it was being underpinned.

Can you see any cracks anywhere? Not just in plaster or brickwork (look for cracks which go across bricks) but alongside doorframes, between the frame and the wall, or ruckled 'pulled' creased wallpaper along the edge of ceilings or at corners? Does the report say what and where the evidence of this movement is?

Stay away... Insurance will be ridiculous

Our buildings insurance has NOT gone up for being in a house that has underpinning - just the excess in case the (guaranteed) remedial work leaves further subsidence work needing doing in the future. That work would still be covered in future, but the excess would be £1000.

But the movement in our house was caused by big trees.

I had exactly this situation with a flat in W9. Spent far too much money on solicitors, surveyors etc before realising that the only option was to way away...

Had a feeling you would say w9! I am there. Would you mind pm'ing the block? If it is the same one, I can give you info on the management of it. Worried that it is mine. I think w9 and Richmond have some of the worst subsidence issues in London. There is one block which resembles a building site at the mo as I think it is having stabilisation work done.

Did you use the bank's surveyor or did you appoint your own? Am v surprised that a HB report would comment on this without any specific examination.

FWIW the one we tried to buy was over looking the rec. If it is there, I repeat my message to walk away...

thanks blameitonthebogey I think you are right... sigh. Time to walk away while we still can

sh77 am PM'ing you - thanks for the offer. The report was commissioned by the bank, it was done by a proper surveyor but without him seeing the structural engineer's report which I still haven't been able to get hold of.

Double sigh.

Sorry to hear about the subsidence - sounds like it would have been such a great find otherwise. TBH, when I have seen places with serious structural issues and still felt tempted, I have had to say to myself 'think about trying to sell it again'...

It sounds like a good buy for someone with an unlimited budget to back them up if serious problems materialise. If that's not you, then back away.

The service charges/block insurance should cover the work, but depending on how the insurance is placed it is likely that the SCs will go up in future years because of it. It's also massively disruptive and you would have to rely on having trustworthy proactive managing agents and management co. I'd walk away, even if the bank will lend to you.

there have historically been serious management co issues with two W9 blocks in particular - dreadful disputes with the management co who is controlled by a company which owns a voting majority of the flats in the block (prof landlord) & who has fleeced the other owners dry.

Drop me a PM if you want some info, have owned a few properties there and tried to buy others / had friends in others. Even within eg Elgin or Wymering Mansions there are really desirable blocks from the POV of ownership because they're controlled by one or other of the well run management companies. It makes a really significant difference to enjoyment of your home. I recall a £14k demand out of the blue for Morshead a while back which just knocked people for six. Lauderdale have done well for their owners by selling off the basements for conversion.

by the way - if you are really desperate to stay in the area, put notes through doors / on communal noticeboards. I sold that way, person I sold to now owns about 5 in the mansions all picked up on word of mouth.

I am resurrecting this thread, as I am looking for any available info on W9 mansion blocks to avoid / aim for ! Please feel free to PM if a public response is not considered appropriate. Thanks in advance ! :)