Commuting to London/ Surrey or Kent?/£1m budget for 4-5bed house

[mmmom]

Hi all,

My DH, baby, dog and I recently moved to Clapham Common/Wandsworth. Although I love the area and would love to buy here, after seeing a few properties, to my dismay, I realise that £1m for a 4/5 bed house in the area really doesn't get you much at all (narrow Victorian houses in real need of modernisation with mostly tiny gardens). The £1m budget is really the cap so if we buy something at that price we will not have any budget for renovations.

I have briefly looked at other areas around South London but am starting to get the feeling that if I want to live in a desirable area, prices are going to be pretty much the same. I have looked at Balham, Wimbledon, Putney, Dulwich and liked them all ; have also looked around New Cross and Tooting Bec but would not like to move there (did not look very nice or felt particularly safe).

Both DH and work (he in Canary Wharf and I in the City (Bank or Cannon Street are my closest tube stations)) and given our current commute is roughly 50 mins (if all goes smoothly), we wouldn't mind adding another 10-20 mins to it, so we are starting to consider moving out of London to get more for our money and hopefully be in an area with good state schools.

Have done a quick search in Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Tunbridge Well (which I'm getting the feeling are the equivalent areas to those we'd like in London), and again, I am surprised to see that though you get a bit more for your money, it's really not that much more. Am I missing something? Are there any other areas I should consider? Is Surrey a workable option given where we need to get in the City/Canary Wharf?

Also, when I mention moving out to the country to my London friends who have kids, I am invariably told that yes, it's great if you're a SAHM, but if both parents work full time (which we do), it's really not workable. Is that right? Frankly, given that at the moment, no matter how I slice it (tube or cab), I'm still a good 40-50mins from home, I don't see how another 10-20 mins would make much a difference.

Would appreciate any feedback and thank you in advance.

ooooh

Why not check out Richmond, good links tube and rail. Or possibly (though not checked out the travel times) somewhere like Windsor? You could use the Windsor and Eton Riverside train service and I know that it does not take very long to get out as far as Twickenham and it is a fast service. Will definitely get more for your money out there.

OP, you are in almost exactly the same position that DH and I were in 18 months ago, same budget, living in the same area and considering the same moves!

In the end we decided to move to the Epsom area. This has worked for us and we managed to purchase a lovely property for just within your budget, considerably larger than one we almost purchased next to Wandsworth common.

On the whole this has worked for us, however I am on maternity leave and have been for most of the time we have lived here. If you are planning on returning to work you need to seriously consider if moving further out is a good idea. I am still deliberating whether or not to go back to work, if I do it will only be for a couple of days a week but if I was going to be working full time I would move back into London. The main reason for this is that both DH and I work in the city and I would find the commute a 'waste' of time away from DD if we were both doing it everyday.

Also, do remember that even if the train journey into say London Bridge is 45 minutes you still need to get to the station (drive/walk/bike), wait for train, get to LB, change trains etc etc, it can almost double the time of the train journey part of the commute if you are not careful.

How big a house and what type ideally are you looking for OP and is size of house your priority? I'm just wondering as after posting yesterday I was curious about the prices in places you have looked already.

I grew up in dulwich and there was a house for sale in the road I grew up on within your budget. They're Edwardian and single fronted so could be described as narrow but they're a lot bigger than a lot of victorian terraces in S london. The gardens are a good size relative to London gardens in general.

London prices are so crazy that if you want a house that's very big and spacious you'll struggle anywhere as they're astronomically expensive and often in short supply. Lots of big old houses in some areas have mostly been converted to flats.

If you get a train into Waterloo it is a short (2 mins) walk to Waterloo East where there are trains every three mins to London Bridge. If your ticket is 'London terminals' you can do this without paying extra. DH used to do this from Kingston to the City which was well within the commute times you are thinking of. 1 million would get you a reasonable house here with 5 bedrooms tho gardens tend to be on small side.

Haywards Heath?

Another option to throw into the mix is to move further in to town. We live in Kennington. Our budget is much smaller and our house is much smaller than your looking for and a doer upper. There are some stunning 5 floor Georgian houses that the asking prices are just over budget, some around £1.2m. The downside is they're on the main roads, Kennington road or Kennington park road. They are really set back from the road though, front gardens are bigger than lots of London houses' back garden. The transport links are amazing and you can even walk into town.

Dilys and Gatorade have it on the commute. For one, people tend to quote the train journey time, whereas the actual journey will include 'transfers' at each end! Also, an hour on a train is not the same as an hour on the tube within London as you are not within taxi distance, you're reliant on one train line (my nightmare when considering a move out was both of us stuck in London when something happened on the line and not being able to get back for the kids) and you have to add waiting time for that train in an emergency.

I feel like I bang a bit of an area drum but you could get a gorgeous house with nice garden for £1m in Forest Hill. Primaries are very good, secondaries are OK. The East London line takes 10 minutes to Canada Water.

I agree on the commute points. I'm always baffled by people who maintain their town in surrey or Sussex or wherever is really well connected because it's only 40 minutes into London. That still depends on the trains running ok, probably only 4 or less an hour so if you miss one you have to wait for the next and then adding on travelling to the station at the start and from the station to the destination at the end. I doubt many people live within a couple of minutes walk of the station either.

I guess I'm a committed urbanite anyway,but it's still door to door times that I think matter. Mine is 30 mins and not dependent on timetables or making sure I catch a particular train.

i agree, people always quoted my train journey as being 50 minutes. But actually that was the fast train, and when I included the rest of the journey, it took me 1 3/4 hours to get to and from work. even people I know who live closer say that the commute is a pita - and I don't know anyone where both members of the couple commute full time.

so what about North London? You could get a house for that money in Crouch End or Muswell Hill (although neither are on the tube) and West Hampstead.

Have been watching this thread with interest - we moved out on a slightly lower budget than the OP and, to be honest, if we had a budget of £1m we certainly be considering a move back in - or at least further in than we are now. The irony is that having moved out it is simply not feasible for us both to hold down full-time commuting jobs so our mortgage is limited to one salary.

Plenty have people have commented on the realities of the commute - this is what hit us the hardest. Yes, it may be a 50min train journey (off peak, one fast train a day), but add on the walk/drive to the station, parking, transfer to the tube and waiting for the next train if you just miss one - then it is more like an hour and a half. Also, factor in the cost of season tickets (£'000s) and parking (also £'000s in many cases).

A comment on schools. Two of our village schools have closed in the past 5 years as there was no demand. Now with the recession, parents have moved their children out of private schools, add that to the baby boom and small class sizes, and the remaining schools are seriously over-subscribed. I know of one primary school in the area that has only been able to offer reception places to siblings. Also, given that most mums are at home, breakfast clubs and after school clubs are not the norm in the state sector.

Sorry if that all sounds a bit negative but I just want to highlight areas where you should do your homework. I might add that we are further out than places like Epsom and Kingston, which have been mentioned.

Actually that's something you should bear in mind when looking at hardcore commuter-land - the demographic is heavily skewed in some areas towards SAHMs and commuter (or divorced and non-resident) dads, and it can sometimes result in poor provision of wrap around care at school and a general assumption that you will be available to turn up several times a term for random assemblies/tea parties/reading sessions and associated guilt unless you have a very thick skin and/or strong feminist convictions.

Worth checking this out on MN re specific areas.

DilysPrice is right - that's exactly the case where we are. Wrap around care and even childminders are pretty well non-existent. The few working mums I know have a nanny employed 7am to 7pm four days per week (I don't know any that work five days to be honest)

and consider your future plans: my Dad commuted for 15 years. still wakes at six four years into retirement.

that was one long commute (2hrs one way unless on the ATC schedule)

What about somewhere like Saffron Walden?

I think Surrey is the wrong side of London for the city - you still have a long commute, but don't get much for your money.

Actually, thinking about it, a very long commute for both parents would be difficult if there were major train delays, which usually happen at least once a year.

I have gone out of the way to avoid both DH and I commuting. About twice a year there is something which shuts down my main train line and it can take 4 or 5 hours to do the 2 hour door to door trip. If both of us were on that route, we'd be buggered.

Shoreditch is nice in parts these days, and if I had your budget I be moving back to Muswell Hill like a shot. Good schools and lovely London village feel. Much nicer to me than actual villages!

What about somewhere like Beckenham? Properties like this this and this.

Takes 20 mins to London bridge or Victoria, plenty of parks and green spaces plus good schools.

I agree with what lots of other posters have already said about a) working out the true end to end travel time ie when do you physically need to leave the office to pick up at school - is this OK?? And b) thinking carefully about what happens if both of you are reliant on the same travel to get home.

We moved into London because the stress of trying to do a longer commute (c90 mins door to door) and both of us being stuck when the inevitable First Capital Connect line failure happened. So much happier now! If you do look in Surrey (and Guildford or Godalming would be worth a look with that budget) you need a sound back up plan eg emergency childminder arranged.

For £1m I'd look in Wimbledon, Richmond, Earlsfield, Southfields but not Putney

Am I allowed to mention Essex? Very easy commute for both OP and DH and your money will go further. Some lovely villages.

both of you commuting home to nanny/childminder/nursery - fine if you in london where whichever mode of transport is right there and max is xx time - or emergency taxi is max xx amount of time when needed.

but if you 30 or 40 minutes on train then you dependent on train times.

no option to jump in taxi in emergency. and if you both get stuck in london due to snow then what ?

unless you going to afford live in nanny who happy to be flexible and she will be the one stepping in for calls from school/sick children etc.

Croydon gets you this - massive garden, less than 10 minutes' walk to East Croydon station which has about 10 direct trains an hour to London Bridge (15 minutes), still leaving you with over £300K to spare.

I also work in Canary Wharf and I can be at my office in about 30 mins from East Croydon station.

Stanhope Road/streets around it put you in a pretty much guaranteed catchment for Park Hill or St Peter's primary schools. Secondary choices in Croydon aren't so great, but you'll have more than enough money left over to educate them privately. See my response on this thread for more information on schools.

Tooting Bec is basically Balham - if you like the general area, I'd reconsider as it really is perfectly safe and very family-filled so not a 'youths hanging about on street corners' place at all. I live in Tooting Broadway in a 4 bed with big garden for 400k and still hang out on wworth/clpham commons and have all the nice cafe etc options just don't pay an insane amount for housing!

FatherReboolaConundrum makes a great point. North of London offers some great alternatives such as St Albans, Harpenden, etc. Excellent schools, sought after areas, but offering much more for your money - with London accessible via good rail links perhaps an option to consider?