Anyone advise on internal alterations in a Grade II listed house?

[tedglenn]

Seen a lovely Grade II listed house which we really like. However the living room is small with lots of doors off it, making it very hard to place furniture.

I obviously would take advice from the conservation officer before making an offer, but I was wondering if anyone here with knowledge of making alterations in Grade II listed houses could advise whether, on the floor plan below, we would be likely to get permission to remove the wall between the drawing room and the study to make a larger living space? We'd keep the stairs. At the moment there is a large doorway with curtain across in the wall dividing the two rooms.

Flooplan

The listing states 'interior not inspected'. The house already has a 2-story extension (kitchen/breakfast room) (permission given in 1987; the same year as it was listed).

We've just had our offer accepted on a similar property. The Heritage person came to look & seemed to advise that we could do what we wanted inside, but not the exterior. You couldn't put terrace doors in, for example. She was happy for us to take down the wall between the tiny kitchen & dining room to make a larger space.
We've used a local architect who seems to know what the local planners will allow.

Hi, I'm a former conservation officer with a council. You will always need listed building consent to take down the wall. To me it would depend on a number of factors:

Is the wall original?
Is there any features on this, such as decorative cornice, panelling etc?
DO you want to remove the whole thing floor to ceiling or leave a retaining bit on the sides and at the top?
What are the floors in each room, how would you propose to make good the join if you take it out?

The listing description is for identification only so won't really help in the case (most are basic done in the 1980's) just because something is not mentioned doesn't mean it's not important.

If your new to listed buildings the SPAB website is fantastic.

In my opinion, I look at how historic and significant internal features etc are. I'd also want to know the reasons why you want to do it. I have in the past granted consent to similar cases where they want to remove a wall, but asked that it's partly retained with a small return on each side and at the top so you can see it was originally a wall, if you get me.

You'll also need to think about the finish- lime plaster etc.

Hope that helps. Best advice is to get your cons officer out. Good luck!

I think Sausagedog's advice is good.

Not sure what the construction is - but if it is a timber-framed building (eg. tudor style), then it is highly unlikely you will be allowed to "break" any of the beams. I have seen walls removed in these types of houses but the original framework is always left in place to give a lattice type structure across the room.

Listed Building status does not mean that it is frozen in time and change is not permitted, but the system is actually is about managing change. You can make surprisingly large changes to a Listed Building - if you can justify it historically.

The floorplan you posted looks like the building was once 2 small cottages that have been put together? The best I can suggest is that you get down to the local history library and copy the old maps and maybe look at old records. Find out about the building, it's past and past occupants. Ask about local precedants. If workers' cottages used to have a single room downstairs then you might have a chance - but only if the other things that sausagedog mentions are also dealt with.

After that it is not just the big stuff but all the different materials and things you will need to use that are a bit more expensive etc etc.

I think you need to read look before you leap from the SPAB before you go any further.

There was a recent thread here on this board last week which might be worth a look too.

Now if only I could get a pound for every time I posted that SPAB link, my dream II* georgian house would be one step closer!

thank you so much for the advice everyone, very useful. To be able to use place furniture in the room to we would really need to remove the whole wall, and appreciate that might not be permitted/desirable. I will get the conservation officer to take a look before going any further. Thank you again.

Just wanted to re-iterate SausageDog's pointer that you will have to do something about making good the floors and the ceiling if you remove the wall, and your floors may be very difficult to match.

We forgot this when making what was superficially a minor alternation to a wall, which still left a lot of floor and ceiling to be fixed up.

You may also run into problems with wiring? Again, we did...

Also, they are terrible money and time pits. Fine if you want your hobby to be maintaining a listed building, not if not.

Dear Sausagedog27,

I'm hoping for some advice and you sound like you are just the person! We have just had an offer accepted on a Grade II listed house. I am hoping for some advice about what we can and can't do, how much detail they need etc (eg removing an old bath with old taps... do they need to know this sort of stuff?)... do you think I can directly contact the specific conservation officer or do i have to pay the £200+ for a formal pre-application enquiry? Seems a lot for a bit of general advice....

Thank you!

2 bits of MN advice, sorry not actually on listed building, but meant in the spirit of helpfulness.

Firstly, it can be a bit irritating to read through a thread, before noticing it's a zombie thread and the original issue will have been resolved years ago, only to find the thread's been ressurected by someone posting on it today.
You'll do better by far by starting your own thread.

Then, if you want to attract the attention of a specific knowledgeable poster, you could do this : @KennyClaire
Did you get an email telling you I did that?
But, some posters may have this facility turned off. Or have changed their user name.

Yours is interesting query.
Start a thread and you may get good responses.

Of you an @Sausagedog27 it will notify sausage ! ( ha - that sounds a bit funny - well, if you are about 12 !)

If !!