building works quotes

[showmethemummy]

not sure what to do here...

we recently bought a house in need of a bit of work: new kitchen, bathroom, seperate WC ; front (small) extension. We also would like to put in an ensuite on the master bedroom.

cutting long story short we appointed an interior design company who quoted us initially around 45K for building works and then a further 8k for own fees.

we agreed to this. that was two weeks ago. we are under rather a bit of time pressure; everything has to be done by october.

we've just been furnished with a more detailed quote from the builder which takes the total estimated costs for building works to £78K. wtf?

we live in london; i realise everything costs more here.

here is my q: how much should we push for the builder to lower his quote, without comprimising on our initial requirements? ie do we need to drop things like the ensuite?
how much do we push the initerior design company ( whom I think of as managing the project) to do this for us...?

hope my post makes sense....

You need the interior design company to explain why the massive difference. How are they getting paid? Are they on a percentage of the build cost? In which case it's in their interests if the build cost goes up. Try to get them onto a fixed fee.

Is this 'their' builder? Sometimes interior designers build a relationship with a particular builder and don't get alternative quotes. I (am ex designer) used to have my favourite builder but always got alternative quotes just to keep us all honest.

£78k does sound far too much for what you describe. Don't start compromising on what you want until you see whether his quote stands up to a competitive one. And if the design company says he's the only builder they'll work with, find someone else (sorry, I know you're on a tight schedule but better to wait a bit than get ripped off).

thank you very much for posting! i feel we were a bit hasty due to being desperate time-wise and completely overwhelmed by the work, in appointing someone fairly quickly. but we did think we had a good word of mouth recommendation ( and it is actually still early days...). still.

the designer mentioned that this is a preferred builder, and I'm sure they've not asked anyone else to quote, because we laid it on quite thick that we need things done by oct. part of the work ( the front extension) needs planning permission which will apparently take 8 weeks (even though neighbours have already completed same works and obviously were granted permission for that...durr).

anyway should we end up in a position where we 'fire' the design company would we need to start the planning permission process all over again?

their fee is based on cost of build... were we really naive here? how does one go about changing it? ruthless negotiation?

i really don't want to piss them off right at the start...plus i really like the designer (personally... iyswim) sigh. and to think, we appointed someone partly to remove the stress of the whole thing!

I also dont think that 78k sounds excessive for what you describe if done to a nice standard.

I think the designer may have been a bit naive when they suggested 45 - but also you have to think about what (in addition to the ensuite) has maybe crept on to your shopping list which might have helped push the total up...? Doing things fast tends to come at a premium for example.....

Do you mean 2 months as 2 weeks seems far too short a time to get a proper brief and tender done?

The designer's fee at 17% is maybe slightly high but not too far off what the RIBA might suggest on their fee curves. This is a standard way of calculating fee. However the percentage tends to go down as cost of the work increases. Trouble is that for this amount of work you might only be able to haggle down towards the 14-15% level. Once the tender is agreed ask the designer to convert their fee to a fixed lump sum to avoid unexpected extras - but dont necessarily expect to get a percentage reduction too as a fixed fee will mean that they add a contingency.

I second the idea of getting comparable quotes but based on your description you will need to do less work to get back to the original estimate - so be a bit suspicious if any quotes seem too good to be true! And maybe ask the designer for a list of items which you could omit, down spec or do later.

It also seems a bit unfair that you have "laid it on thick" about the programme so that the due process of design and tendering has been rushed - a situation often meaning that the designer will slightly over spec and the builder add contingency to his price to cover for lack of information = high price.

Sadly this is a fairly typical turn of events with a fast programme but if you have good references for this team it is worth staying calm and sticking with it.

Your programme sounds very ambitious for doing all the work on your list. You will not want to hear this but it would be best to do less work (or phase it) and get everything thrashed out before work starts. Remember it is far far cheaper to work things out on paper and make mistakes there when thinking it all through than to let the work start and then start spotting problems! Most clients do not spend enough time in the planning/reflecting stage and then repent at leisure.

Planning takes 8 weeks minimum. It will be unaffected by changing professional advisors.

Actually looking back at your post there is NO chance you will get all that sorted by October!!! Sorry if this sounds blunt but you are coming over as very naive and unreasonable when i look at both posts together. I am starting to feel a bit sorry for your designer!

Slow down and get real - you can only get 2 out of 3 of good, cheap and quick!! It sounds like you have asked for good and quick so if cheap and quick is actually what you are after you will have to get used to the idea it might not be great quality.

In the most well meaning sense- you are out of your depth so should reassess your requirements with your designer before launching into substantial works unprepared.

And sorry if sounding a bit harsh as i am posting in brief from my phone

Well, you should have them on the back foot since their preferred builder has come in much more expensive than they said. I wouldn't have thought there was enough work around at the moment for them to be able to walk away from a client.

That said, as a designer it is irritating when a client starts by saying they want something really quickly and then starts arguing when the cost comes in, but that's life. And is it really worth over £20k to have them still like you? If I was your designer I'd be embarrassed, and want to sort it out.

Not sure where you stand re planning permission. If you've paid the fees for the application to go in then it should go ahead even if you've fired the designer.

Regarding the fee structure, you're not naive. There is no set way of charging in interior design. Personally I used to prefer a fee for design work and then an hourly rate for project management but this is probably why I'm not rich .

I think it sounds too much.
We live in an expensive area (almost London prices) didn't go for a cheapest quote and have got nice stuff.
Our prices are roughly as below:

Inside work- lots of repair work inside, joists etc, ceilings overboarded, all internal walls plastered, bathroom moved from old extension to upstairs, knocked through double sitting room, new stairs x 2, downstairs loo put in, whole house require, new pipes/boiler underfloor heating in bathroom, new skirting throughout, wall
Moved upstairs to allow for loft later, and then a 24 sq meter kitchen extension which requires special raft foundation has conservation bleu es, and a roof lantern window (more expensive - due to sewer beneath).
This has all come to 68,000 plus vat.
Cost of kitchen and bathroom units and sanitary ware about 17,000 plus vat

Do you really need an interior designer?
Happy to share our tips for getting quality looks at slightly cheaper price

And haggle! Our builder dropped down by 6000.

Good luck!

tricot not harsh; thanks for honesty, and posting. tbf though i realise the planning permission takes as long as it does; not blaming designer for that at all.
our whole predicament was really brought on by excessively sluggish solicitors. but that's a whole other c.o.w.

thanks all - really, really appreciate this. we have decided to delay the start of the works, and to take more time over defining the scope and cost of things. it does seem really foolish to rush into starting when really the main delay at the moment is planning permission for one part of the work.

we'll go back and haggle - hopefully with more input from our designer; bloodybuilder I think we need them; we have 3 small children (7,5 &2) and both work ( altho i'm p/t, and from home). although i think perhaps they should be doing more, and unless they do soon, will definitely reconsider whether we can afford them.

I'm sure I'll be back on here for more advice soon!! thanks again.

That sounds like a very good plan
good luck!