My ex-landlord is trying to pull a fast one, but I think I screwed up too :( Any advice?

[redandyellowbits]

I am stressed, does anyone have any wise words to help me?

We moved out of our first rented house at the end of June. All fine. Estate agent emailed me 2-3 weeks later, saying we had damaged to property in lots of ridiculous ways - e.g. by installing stair gates, which we didn't, as these were already there, and my DCs are too old to need them.

Similarly, they are claiming we damaged walls by putting up curtain poles - no, these were also already there.

They agreed and backed down on a lot of these points, but are now claiming we damaged the flooring to the tune of £200 (but they are willing to accept £100 for a quick resolve ).

I messed up because I didn't check and return the inventory when they first sent it to us. This is entirely my fault - the inventory was very top-line so I checked it briefly and didn't follow up -the house was freezing, and things were very hectic with house move, me working full time and two DCs. We had moved in just before Xmas and were then away for 2 weeks, on return I found I was pg and had severe HG, and so the inventory got forgotten. It was my fault nonetheless.

DH thought I had it all under control, and had returned the inventory (even if I had, it didn't cover many of the points they raise). Also as lots of the damage to the house was noted by us to the estate agent on the phone or directly to the landlord on the phone, we didn't note it all down via email, as I didn't realise it would come to this situation.

DH is fuming with them and has told me he will now deal with it, but I am worried that if we go in all guns blazing it will come down to being our fault for not returning the inventory, rather than the agent/landlords fault for doing a crap sign-out from their last tenant, and they will escalate this more, and charge us for all the damage from their last tenant which they hadn't noted in the inventory.

I don't know what I can do :( I was handling all of the paperwork etc for this as a first - DH usually does it all and I wanted to get my pre-DC sensible head back on and do it all this time. But it's all gone wrong. Can someone tell me I'm over-reacting and all will be fine please?

My gut reaction is that they are taking the piss.

I would go back to them really brazen and dispute everything. The DPS puts a strong onus on the landlord to prove the damage. You've got nothing to lose.

Get the offer of £100 in writing first though! And make sure you get the previous demands in writing as it's all evidence that the landlords are poor.

Sorry your DH is not being supportive - we all make mistakes in these circumstances. If it makes you feel any better I measured a room for a carpet on Sunday and then ordered it 6 inches too short Luckily the guy in the shop was also having a bad day and cut it 18 inches too long

how are they planning on getting the money from you?

UnexpectedItem The damage is definitely there, but it was there before we moved in, and was not noted in the inventory. Nor did we ever discuss it on paper (I mentioned it to the agents in conversation, but it wasn't noted).

Both the agent and the landlord are saying they can't remember any conversations regarding any of the previous damage, and don't remember the damage being there previously.

I have their offer of £100 in an email now, and am having all contact via emails. They claimed this week we didn't return the smoke alarm to the property (we accidentally took this with us when packing). Luckily I had an email to prove that we did return this. I wish I had done everything via email from earlier :(

DH's gut reaction is that we are at (major) fault by not returning the inventory, but he is more pissed off with them for being so money-grabbing. He is going to contact them himself, hopefully he can get them to back down.

DuellingFanjo they still have our deposit and are saying they will return this minus the cost of the damages. The tenancy agreement states the money is held by the Tenancy Deposit Scheme, but as they never gave us a TDS number I am assuming that the estate agents are holding the cash themselves. They said they will return the rest of the deposit tomorrow by bank transfer if we agree on these final costs.

This sounds very dodgy.

I suspect that they have not protected your deposit.

You should have received a tenancy code and a copy of the Tenancy Deposit registration certificate. I would ask them for a copy of this asap.

My understanding is that if they want to withhold some of the deposit then the scheme asks for confirmation from you that you are happy. This is contrary to their tstatment that they can return the deposit by bank transfer tomorrow.

I could be wrong - I use the DPS but it still smells fishy.

So I recommend that your next step is to get the code and go onto the TDS website to check they have protected it correctly.

From the TDS website if your deposit is not registered with TDS:

"If your deposit holder is a member of TDS and has not registered your deposit with one of the other schemes, we may be able to deal with your dispute even if your tenancy has not been registered with us. But you may consider whether you want to take action in a county court. This is because, under the Housing Act 2004, Section 214, you may be awarded the whole of your deposit plus between one and three times its amount by way of compensation for failure to protect a deposit depending on the circumstances of your case. You will need to seek independent advice on this. We are only able to deal with the amount of the disputed deposit itself."

"they still have our deposit and are saying they will return this minus the cost of the damages. The tenancy agreement states the money is held by the Tenancy Deposit Scheme, but as they never gave us a TDS number I am assuming that the estate agents are holding the cash themselves"

legally they have to hold it in a tenancy deposit scheme, you should ask - if they haven't then they may well end up having to pay you.

Oh crap :( I'll ask them.

If they are claiming the deposit is under TDS when it isn't, hopefully we argue this legally if it comes to it? Does that meant they would now have to register the deposit and then try to reach an agreement with us? If so I hope the mention of TDS is enough to scare them into backing down.

Find out for certain where your deposit it being held. My suspicions were raised when I realised I had never received details of the scheme it was placed in. I subtly mentioned this to landlady and have just received it all back today. Every penny.
They HAVE to protect your deposit.

Contest it with TDS (or use the lack of TDS to make them back down) - TDS are very reasonable on these things.

My tenants absolutely destroyed the worktop in the kitchen which I asked to claim back the cost of replacing. As the contest was not new TDS only agreed to the tenants pay half the cost of replacement. - Which I think is fair enough really.

Floor damage would probably have to be pretty extensive to justify them getting you to pay, especially if you've been there two years, and it wasn't new when you moved in.

The Contest? I mean the worktop.

Used to be an inventory clerk and as far as I am aware the following should have taken place:

The inventory should have been prepared by an independant person (ie not a member of agents staff)
The inventory should be dated and if possible have photos - if none are there any photos on the original adverts?
It should be signed by both parties - unless there is a comment on it like 'If we do not receive the amended copy back within X days it will be considered a true and accurate representation of the condition of the property.
It should include a description of each item and some comment on it's condition

Flooring - carpet
Ths would not allow landlord to claim anything unless the carpet was completely missing (same with curtain poles etc)

Flooring - carpet - worn to main tread areas no cuts marks or stains
Would allow landlord to claim if there were additional stains

BUT only a percentage of the cost of replacement, depending on age of item and expected replacement time.

They should have provided you with a check out report detailing any damage or discrepancies - not done this over phone etc.

I would try and contact the inventory clerk to chat through the issues with them.

What flooring was it and what is the damage and how old is it (they have to be able to prove this) and what room is it in?

The inventory was carried out by the agents, but it seems to have been by a different person who carried out the previous inventory on the house she is the same woman now accusing us of all this damage. .

The damage to the floor was a big chip on the laminate (around 3cm square).

The previous tenant had damaged the laminate in other rooms, caused holes in doors and filled them badly, and dropped ink of the carpet which meant the whole carpet has to be replaced. When we left the carpet was still spotless despite us having 2 preschoolers there. We really look care of the place which is why this is so unfair.

We only lived there for 6 months and the flooring was definitely not new (in fact damaged in other rooms).

DH is chasing them for a TDS number, no reply as yet.

They took nearly a week to reply to my request for the deposit back, fingers crossed they are quicker this time round.

Call their bluff. Say you don't agree and wish to take it to TDS.

You'll soon find out if it's been held correctly or not.

Any update redandyellow?

Nothing yet :( hopefully they will come back to me on Monday.

When I used the Tds for a deposit the tenant had to log on and agree the return of deposit. They were also emailed at the start of the tenancy with the reference, by Tds. Odd you haven't had that? Suggests possibly not lodged with them.

Is this managed by the estate Agents they have really dropped a clanger not using Tds. I'd really go to town on that.

Honestly if in doubt CAB is a great place for advice on your rights etc. (i think they do call-backs and/or email consultations now too).

They never did reply re having registered with the TDS. DH emailed them again and said its clear there are many discrepancies with what they were claiming we did, and was prepared to offer £100 in total (instead of the £270 we had finally haggled down to) to cover cleaning and the supposed damage they are claiming we caused.

If they didn't accept that offer we would go through TDS to cjontest the whole amount.

Got a snotty email back the following day saying 'the landlord does not want the hassle of chasing you for this money. You will be reimbursed in our next payment run' and that was it. No admission that they had been money grabbing lying thieving arses, and no TDS details either. The money was then paid back into our account two days later.

It's been horribly stressful, I would have preferred that DH didn't offer them a penny as it was all so unjust but at least its resolved. And we've gone from a bill of £925 (the full deposit) down to £100.

We are now in our own house and don't plan to be renting again any time soon but it's definitely a lesson learnt. Bastards.

Thanks for all your valuable advice on this, it's really appreciated.

Mmmm how come they are paying you? When I arranged the return if the bond I'm sure tds paid it direct.

I'm suspicious it's not lodged.

Pickles I agree, I am not sure it's been lodged with the TDS. However I am going to leave it for now.

DC3 is due any day, I am leaving all the stressful jobs to DH and he thinks they must be registered as they are a so-called reputable estate agents in the area. I think he just wants to get rid of the problem, as do I. Not ideal I know, but I just glad it's over and we don't have a £900+ bill hanging over out heads.

Any idea if TDS can confirm the deposit was registered with them without me having to contact or ask the estate agents directly? I would like to know either way but would rather never speak to the awful estate agents again if at all possible.

The trouble is there are a couple of different ones, you should have been given reference numbers. I know it's a pain but I'd be tempted to send one more email saying your not happy with the way it's been handled and asking for the name of the deposit scheme maybe after you get the 800 back do they can't renege on it?

There was a specific one mentioned in the tenancy agreement, I may contact them first and ask if we were ever registered.

I thought they had to return at least part of your deposit within ten days of checkout