certificate of ownership falsely filled in planning application. This is an offence isn't it?

[annoyednow]

I posted this in legal, but no traffic or maybe no replies. Has anyone experience of this?

The owner of the house next door submitted a planning application for a house extension. The owner sent in a drawings showing incorrect boundaries encroaching on my property. They filled in certificate A which states the applicant in the sole owner of application site. The form stated under this that it is an offence if it is 'knowingly or recklessly' filled in and successful prosecution can result in a fine.

There is no reason to assume my garden should be presumed to be part of their site. It is in my possession and my boundary fence is where it should. No solicitors letter or legal action is in progress. There is no official dispute. The only place it is claimed in in the maps submitted to the the council and the only place we were alerted to the claim. No one has ever said anything directly to us. Their 'surveyor' (who is not a charted land surveyor or boundary expert) has claimed in response to our objection that because there are overhanging eaves, they own everything under them on that side and this line then extends full length of garden, even where there are no eaves.

We got a charted surveyor and boundary expert in to investigate claim after we downloaded application and were is shock because we thought if they claimed it there may be some basis. It is baloney and their 'party wall surveyor' doesn't seem to understand party wall at all. He stated that as the eaves etc overhang our side, our chartered surveyors statement that it is our side of party wall would mean we must own their overhanging roof, guttering fascia/soffit etc.

It seems you can call yourself a 'party wall surveyor' if you have done two party wall notices. I wonder if this could include merely two party wall fences? They did not even bother to make sure the claim was done by someone with boundary expertise.

My question is what is the probability of this 'claim' being prosecuted. They seem to have used the planning system to test it, without risk, without any proper basis. They have not officially disputed it in any other way and never even mentioned it to us. They would have to pay for a solicitors letter and maybe have to pay our court costs if they had tried to legally challenge it. They have also shown area under overhanging eaves on public footpath other side of house, but that is for council and not my problem.

Does anyone know anything about this certificate offence? It was at least recklessly done as they have no other challenge to it and it is certainly not determined.

No idea, but I have read your other thread and admire your persistance.

It's a stone in my shoe, plutocrap.

I've also been sharing your frustration on your other thread, and I have no experience or expert knowledge to share, but just wanted to lend a bit of moral support.
The most important thing is your gathering information in objection to your neighbours' planning application? And you are consulting experts - do you have a direct line to a useful planning officer who can advise you? Have you put forward your objections including your surveyors reports regarding the boundary? If that is established then their application should be thrown out and they should redesign based on the established boundary? Do you have a good solicitor who knows what they're doing in the case of boundary disputes? I think you need to pull out all the stops on this and fight it all the way. Surely the planning dept and the people you are consulting are assisting you in this?

I imagine a lot of land has been acquired by stealth rather than ownership over the years. Do you have the original paper deeds to your house? Any plans at all? If so - held with mortgage lender? - then that would be useful in addition to your expert's report. Any plans for neighbours original extension at the planning office archives or electronically which might have any useful info on?

Yes the form is wrong, but you presumably can't prove that they intended to deceive or steal land by stealth. This board has regular posts about problems with plans and professionals not doing what they have been asked. There are many plausible reasons that they could give to show this is a mistake so a fine being issues is highly unlikely. Surely the fine is irrelevant anyway unless they are granted planning permission?

Reading between the lines you haven't taken on board the helpful advice that many other people have posted on your other threads. If you persist in trying to block the work by nitpicking over small details and administrative issues you are at risk of being written off as a NIMBY. Drop this issue aboue the fine and do be careful or you will sabotage your own efforts!

Above all you should simply concentrate on the main issue which is that their plans are wrong and planning permission should not be granted on that basis!?

Well said tricot. Annoyed you seem to be rather obsessive and somewhat irrational in your approach. You don't like the fact that you can't block your neighbours extension so seem determined to try and cause trouble for them. In all probability they will get permission in the end and you carrying on like this is simply going to mean that they feel I'll will towards you.

Why don't you inform the local planning authority and leave it to them?

I have posted on your previous threads. Object on the grounds that have been suggested and do your best with that rather than getting stuck on this point.

Epic post coming up.

Planning authorities very rarely prosecute anyone or rather forward it to the police for investigation. It's often impossible to prove the intention or full knowledge of the person applying for planning permission. As its only an offence if it is proven that the applicant knowingly supplied false information, it's a tough one to prove.

As for your boundary situation. They are not testing the boundary through the planning system. It isn't possible to do this.

Say someone obtained planning permission to build something on part of land which wasn't theirs, then the real owner can obtain an injunction through the High Court to stop them building/using/trespassing on this land. If they then chose to ignore this, they are not only in contempt of court but they have committed a criminal offence known as aggravated trespass.

You can obtain planning consent on land you do not own but you will never be able to build what you have consent for.

As for their so called party wall person. Only the title of Chartered Surveyor is protected. Anyone can call themselves a surveyor or party wall whatever and may not have sufficient knowledge to do the job.

Planning inspectors for local authorities are fairly savvy. They will without a doubt understand that the neighbour doesn't own the land where the eaves over hang.

They will also see that your neighbour is either massively trying it on or very ill informed.

I completely understand that you feel angry over all of this. Your neighbour doesn't sound great.

Just remember that as you are entitled to object to a planning application they are entitled to apply for them. It is up to the local authority to deem whether it is suitable.

This is done not solely on neighbours objections but on many other issues such as the Local Plan, Unitary Development Plan and sometimes on conservation policy or listed buildings.

Neighbours objections do count but they must be valid objections. Boundary disputes are not valid objections but privacy, sun and day light, over shadowing, size and scale of proposed development and noise (after its built), traffic parking issues are all valid ones.

Hope that helps to allay some fears.