Builder not followed plans...roof too low on extension and other issues

[bloodybuilder]

Oh god I dont know where to start
Name change as this story will identify me!

We bought a run down Victorian terrace which needed gutting. We employed a builder who we knew as he did a massive project next door to our old house and the finish was good, we liked him, and there didnt seem to be any major problems.

An architect drew up plans, we submitted planning permission and listed building consent (grade 2 listed). We have had a single storey kitchen building out and into side return extension, created open plan living/dining/playroom, bathroom moved upstairs, new stairs etc etc

The floor for the kitchen went in this week. It meant the ceiling looked worryingly low. We measured it, and it is 20cm lower than the plans. Our expensive kitchen wont fit now - well they'll have to take the plinth off the tall units so now it wont line up and look right. Also there are two steels which are meant to be flush with the ceiling above in the old part of the kitchen, and these are hanging below - so now that section of the kitcheb looks quite boxed in rather than sleek. I'm not really explaning this vey well..

Basically he's done his own thing rather than follow the plans, apparently because he had difficulty getting the beams in. (not sure I believe this he has form for lying to us) The whole roof on the extension is too low, prob by 30cm.

He wasnt even going to tell us - even though he had the kitchen plan which said a minimum height needed for the tall units (taken from architects plans with some leeway).

We have had problems with him previously - he moved a wall in the kids bedroom in further than on the plans (to get loft stairs up) which makes the bedroom smaller, he used metric rather than imperial bricks as specified by conservation officer (luckily she passed it), made the bifold door opening smaller so now we have to get bespoke doors etc etc...

Relations were good to start. His finish is of high quality and he has a good eye for detail. I like (? liked him)

Rather stupidly because I trusted him we had no contract (and didnt think if it to be honest - i know i know stupid). Initially I was probably too friendly taking fresh coffee and cake etc and now he is getting annoyed with me for sending curt emails asking what has happened.

He is NEVER wrong and it is always someone elses fault.....

Oh shit. This is a nightmare. I am due dc3 in 7 weeks and we are about to move into another temporary accom/house of friend as the house is still not liveable. Oh, did I say it was 2 months late already and we have already put the kitchen delivery back 6 weeks

Any ideas what I can do?

Thanks for getting this far

there were signs though - everyone else is always wrong/the kitchen company were unprofessional/our architect is shit etc etc

HMM yes good point I will chat to conservation lady tomorrow

But if she demands we change it - is he liable if we didnt have a contract?

I actually cannot cope with moving for 8th time to another friends house while they are on holiday (we have lovely friends). I should be nesting. I am 32 =6 and feeling huge and slow.Dc1 starts school in september.
Sorry for wallowing. I know others have worse worries. its only money and a home not an illness

OP, so sorry you are having such a bad time, especially with a baby on the way. I really feel your pain as we are having major problems with our building works at the moment and it seems that problems with steels are common.

Anyway, just to clarify a few legal points for you. You DO have a contract with him. Ok, it is an oral contract rather than a written one, so there may be evidential problems in establishing exactly what was agreed - what the contractual terms are. However, it is clear that he agreed to build the extension more or less in accordance with the plans. I say "more or less" because we all know that plans often cannot be followed to the letter and it must be right that minor amendments can be made, perhaps major ones if necessary.

In addition, there is an implied term in all contracts where services are supplied (s13 Supply of Goods and Services Act), that those services should be supplied with reasonable care and skill. Of course, it isn't up to you to spot his errors. If you were skilled enough to do the work yourself, you would be doing it wouldn't you !!

If he is in breach of the contract, the damages awarded by a court would be such as to put you in the position you would have been in had the contract been properly performed. So enough to have the work redone. So the previous poster who thought that it would be pointless winning a legal argument is mistaken.

The question is has he breached the contract? You really need to see a solicitor to help you establish that. Some offer free preliminary advice, so look online for a firm that does that. Perhaps your first step should be to tell the builder that you are not satisfied with the work and that you will take legal action if he doesn't rectify it.

Good luck!

Thanks artyjools it's a bloody nightmare
Isn't it. Sorry you are having problems too.
I hate confrontation but I also want a nice home!
It's going to get very messy as there's no way he's going to put it right it's a massive job now
Thanks for legal advice. I have also posted on diynot (when noone reied initially) and even though dear old mumsnet is much better with advice it seems to say the same. They are contractually obliged to follow the plans even though we only have a verbal contract

Artyjools we have chatted a lot on other threads about extensions/kitchens etc (other name)

What is the latest?

It has been / still is pretty grim TBH. Our first structural engineer refused to provide us with insurance details (so obviously didn't have any), and because of obvious errors in the plans, the builder was reluctant to proceed on that basis, so we had another structural engineer have a look at the plans. He changed the roof steels, at more expense to us. Massive delays whilst new steels were made. Had lots of guys on site to put the new steels in. New steels turned up - too short. Argument between new engineer and steel guy as to who was to blame. Then some discussion about what was going to hold the steels up anyway and now talk about the chimney having to come down (more expense to us). In the meantime, we have only half a roof and the rental period for the scaffolding and tin hat roof is drawing to a close (about 4 weeks lost), so will probably need extending. We had intended to go on holiday but have decided against it as we can't be sure that the house will be secure in time.

The guys who are on site couldn't be nicer and they are embarrassed at what has been happening. It isn't their fault, so I can't be cross with them. TBH DH and I are at the totally numb stage now.

Who is doing your kitchen? I have to make decisions fairly soon and I seem incapable of making my mind up at the moment.

Oh god what a nightmare for you. I feel exactly the same- numb and withdrawn. Trying to remain positive as the finish on the main house is great and we are really pleased with our choices so far.
I will pm you with my normal
Name!

I'd second taliking to the conservation officer- if he hasn't followed plans precisely it can invalidate your whole listed building application and they can issue enforcement against it. Also for a listed building you could be prosecuted for undertaking works without the benefit of consent. This is all unlikely if you explain to the cons officer- but it might be useful to relay this to your builder so that he corrects the issues. I'd be fuming if it was me- have you ordered your kitchen units? He needs to come back and sort out these issues for you- and if that was a reason he couldn't follow original drawings then he should have owned up. Sorry your in this situation op.

As others say, legal advice required.

Part of problem is that he has now built something you don't have planning or listed building consent for and if the ceiling is very low you won't get building regs certification. Ditto on build regs cert for beams and walls in wrong places.

You can't leave really. Sorry. Last thing you want when you are expecting.

Get in touch with your architect and get him to help identify the worst problems and those which won't pass build regs and those you don't have planning or listed building consent for.

Wish I could be more helpful. It's utterly crap for you and don't blame yourself, it's not up to the client to notice if a supposed professional isn't doing the job correctly.

Has the pitch of the roof changed too or just its height? You should check the pitch as, if that has changed, it may be too flat for tiles meaning that it won't be watertight as the tiles can't do their job properly. Not only would this be problem for you as water will, eventually, end up leaking into the roof void & then the room itself but it should be picked up by a surveyor when you come to sell which may affect a potential purchaser's decision about whether to buy the property or what to pay.

We have bought a property where it appears that the builders mucked up the roof pitch but it still got planning & buildings regs approvals. Unfortunately, it leaks.

Sorry didn't disappear. Had super stressful day talking to architect solicitor etc etc , meeting builder tomorrow

Really appreciate all replies. We are def going to get him to change it. Will reply more tomorrow
Great opening ceremony huh? Wish I hadn't stayed up quite so late now...

bloodybuilder - did you get anywhere sorting this out? I hope so - it sounded hellish.

Hi. Yes after much sucking teeth he put it right. It's not a perfect finish but 1000x better than too low beam. He still hasn't finished so is now 6 months behind but we are getting there and relations are ok.
I've had dc3 since last posting!

I love it when we get an update, congratulations on dc3 have some

I am glad you are happier with the builder, it is so stressful, especially as you were pregnant too.

Indeed. It's funny, now the baby's here despite living in a building site I'm much less stressed. I think it's because we're actually in rather than constantly moving while the build runs on and on

Thanks so much to everyone for their advice, it really really helped in negotiating with him. Thanks for the flowers too!

Yay - a happy ending. Out of curiosity, how did you twist his arm? Did he hold his hands up or did you have to get heavy with him, drag the architect, building inspector and everyone else into it?

It was very heated at first, even with architect at the meeting. My husband was amazing-very calm and collected and just let him vent but stood his ground. After holding out for a few days he called and said he was going to put it right We didn't threaten legal action but he knew we were serious and also we know half of the local area and he wants to protect his reputation. To be fair, he's actually a nice guy who mucked up so i think it was his conscience He's done some other dodgy things but I won't go into it...

It massively delayed things further but was worth it as kitchen looks amazing!