Selling flat with tenant

[Notyetthere]

We have received a letter from our landlord informing us that they intend to put the property up for sale at the end of our tenancy on 14th October 2012. They suggested that if we are interested in buying the flat then we should put in an offer avoiding estate agents fees (I’m assuming this is really a saving on their part). We did not intend to buy in the area we are renting and were planning to buy closer to my partner’s parents in spring 2013. We were not keen to move for another 6 months while we saved more towards the deposit (we will meet our deposit target in Nov 2012).

Before we can respond to their letter with our polite ‘No thanks’ I assume they will serve us with a S21 notice immediately on receipt of our letter. To buy us more time I was planning on taking a long time before I reply to the letter; and when I do reply I would suggest that they sell the property with us still occupying it preventing them from having a void period (neighbour tells us that the flat was up for sale for a long time before they rented it to us) and serving us with the S21 once they get an offer. However, I have heard selling a property with a ‘sitting tenant’ can put people off and also complicate things.

Selfishly I am hoping the case would be the same as what the neighbour says. That way we save more towards the deposit, saves us moving twice in 12 months (I panic at the thought of moving the wardrobe! Twice) and all the fees associated with moving to another rented house.

I guess my question is what are the implications of selling the flat with us still in it on the proviso that we will move out when it’s sold? What problems will the landlord face if they let us stay while marketing the flat?

Lots of landlords market the house/flat while there are still tenants in it.

Obviously thay have to do all viewings by appiontment only but you can't put buyers off by leaving it messy, needing repai etc.

I would ask your landlord if they would consider going to a month to month tenacy at the end of the current tenancy that way you don't have to move before you need to, he won't have an empty propery and then if sells the new owners won't have to wait long till you move.

Assuming someone buying wants to live in the flat, then he will really struggle to sell with a sitting tenant. Put simply any potential buyer does not know whether you'll move out when you're supposed to, or will they be caught in the middle of a drawn-out eviction process.

The best you can hope for is that he'll let you go onto a rolling tenancy agreement from the end of your AST (assuming that's what you're on now), and that he doesn'tfind a buyer before you're ready to leave (fairly likely given he failed to sell it before, it will be heading into Winter, and you aren't exactly going to run around making the house immaculate for a viewing...)

If he does put it up for sale then you've no obligation to tidy up etc for viewings (although clearly this is a thin line as you don't want to be served notice!) and nor do you have to accept proposed viewing times/days - they have to fit around what's convenient for you.

He might not even want you to move out as soon as your tenancy ends - when my previous landlady wanted to sell, she informed us she was putting it on the market, asked us to let the agent in to take photos, and said we could stay until it sold. I didn't feel secure with my home being sold out from under me so I moved as soon as I could manage (and now, well over two years on, the flat STILL hasn't sold - she wants far too much for it...) but I could theoretically have stayed on.

I think the problem (for you, rather than the LL) would be where you'd go once it sells if you don't know when that will be. You might not have all that long to move, and you might struggle finding a new rental in that time, let alone somewhere to buy.

Is there any way you could speed up your intended purchase and move? If your tenancy ends in mid October and you're projected to hit your deposit target in November, you're really only two weeks short of that target which isn't much at all! Could you cut back like crazy now, hit your target early, and buy? It'd be a pain for a few months but would save you a lot of upheaval in the long run.

We moved out as soon as the house we were renting went up for sale. Mainly because we were looking at buying in the near future so wanted to get through the initial 6 month period rental period asap.

We offered to stay whilst house was on the market in exchange for a rent reduction but they weren't interested so they ended up with an empty house for 6 months plus

We already are scrimping and saving like mad. The plan was that we start the house hunt in November while we save for fees and furniture. We have also looks at properties in our ideal location and not a lot on the market. I think my biggest worry is that I was not mentally prepared to go through the buying process yet, I guess you could say it was naive of us to assume the tenancy would be extended.

The problem is that you start looking in Nov, whilst you save for furniture and fees, you find a house and agree a price in Jan, you complete in March. Completely feasible schedule meaning you've nearly 6 months to find a home for. You may be best off looking for a new 6 month rental...even though I know the moving is so painful.

What the LL means by avoiding estate agents fees is he would accept a much lower offer from you if you bought direct than he would someone else buying through the agent. Win win.

I sold a flat I rented out, and as I didn't want to limit my buyer pool to buy-to-let investors I gave the tenant notice that I would not be renewing his contract at the end of the term and was not open to extending it. He was very annoyed, but he was on a fixed term contract so had no right to be really.

If you delay your reply to the LL he will probably assume you aren't interested and serve notice anyway, so I'd just be polite and give him a heads up straight away. He is more likely to be accommodating to you if he feels you have been helpful to him.

Maybe I got the title wrong, it would be nice (on our part) if it was a buy to let that bought it but we are not banking on it. I'm assuming the (normal) buying process takes approx. 6 to 12 weeks. This gives our LL enough time to issue S21 and us vacating the property.

Anyway we have decided to move to another rented with a 6 months break clause just in case it takes longer to find a suitable property to buy.

Many thanks for all your replies.

We looked at a house to buy recently that had tenants. We were told that the tenants would be given 2 months notice once contracts had been exchanged, this did not put us and we did put in an offer (which was declined). The tenants however did try to put us off by being really stroppy while we looked around, there was an awful atmosphere and it was quite embarrassing! Don't forget that the house could take months to find a buyer, October isn't a great time to sell a house IMO. I guess by taking a 6th month rental you will know exactly where you stand, the uncertainty could be quite stressful.

I have lived in three houses that were up for sale. The first two sold more or less overnight to a BTL landlord and no hassle to us. The third took months and we had lots of visitors and selling agents that really treated us badly until we put our foot down. We always kept the hosues very tidy though.

Living in a house up for sale as a tenant can be inconvenient and stressful if it goes on longer than a few months. I also dont think you would get much if any discount if you bought it from the LL.

Time to make a planned move rather than at the behest of someone else I think.

There are lots of people who wouldn't buy with sitting tenants. The buyers have no way of knowing whether you will actually cooperate and leave or whether you will stay put and wait to be evicted. Lots of people who have to rent will actively choose to want until they are formally evicted because this is they only way they get any rights for being re-housed from the local authority. (If you leave after the expiration of notice that your landlord serves you, this is considered "making yourself intentionally homeless") I would be very surprised if both your landlord agreed to this and that he was successful finding a buyer with these terms.

You're better off either moving to another 6-month let somewhere else, or see if you can persuade him to extend your rental until March which fits in with your timescale (perhaps offer him a little extra on the rent for the favour)

If you do want the property you are living in, buying without an estate agent will save him approx 2% of the sale price. You could get the house valued by an estate agent free of charge, knock 10% off that and that'll be the figure your landlord will probably accept in the end even with an agent, then knock another 1% off to share the "saving" 50:50