energy performance certificates

[tricot39]

Hi

I am totally confused. Am i right in thinking that we need to get an EPC to sell our house?

If so I want to get a decent one rather than the old rubbish an estate agent's mate will concoct! I have work contacts so don't think it would be tricky to organise.

I did a lot of work on this a few years back and planned our refurbishment to get up from an F rating to a C.

First question: has anyone organised an EPC on their own? If so how far in advance of marketing? Did your agent knock the cost off the fee? What does a bog standard EPC cost?

Second: is it worth my while? Will any buyers care?

Tia

No one cares so I wouldn't get too worried about it. The agent will charge between 50-100 quid.

We did our own, for about £40 less than our estate agent would have charged - we used this company and they did it within 24 hours of us ordering it. I'm not sure it was better than the estate agent would have done, and no, I'm not sure that most buyers look very closely at the EPC or care about it (unless they're very clued up about energy performance etc.).

It's odd isn't it. Most people take energy performance into account for white goods - and that's a drop in the ocean compared to annual heating and electric costs.....

I don't think that there is too much to get clued up on tho. Green = cheaper. Red = money pit!

EPCs are not needed now so dont bother , they have been scrapped .

EPCs are unfortunately still required. The sellers packs are no longer necessary, but the EPC element remains.

They are pointless. Mine recommended replacing all my double glazing with newer double glazing. Whilst I'm sure it would make some improvement, I've never found my windows to be particularly leaky or drafty, and I fail to see how scrapping and dumping UPVC and creating new UPVC is in the best interests of the environment.

Where are you in the country?

My DH is a Domestic Energy Assessor. We are in Oxfordshire and he charges between £50 and £100 depending on the size of the house. The assessment takes approx 1 hour in your house (again depending on size) and then an hour or two at home.

The DEA will need to take photos inside your house and will need access to your gas and electric meters, boiler, cylinder, loft, heating controls. Will need to see any proof of the age of your double glazing. Will want to see energy saving bulbs in all light fittings. If you have any solar/PV anything like that make sure he sees the paperwork.

When he gets home he has to draw a plan of your house, then lodge the EPC on a specialised database that then works out your rating.

National companies rip off the DEAs. Whatever they charge you, remember the DEA they task gets at least a tenner less from them, plus has to pay to lodge the EPC with Stroma or Quidos. All the national company is doing is what you can do for yourself - google to find a DEA in your area.

You could also check the LANDMARK register - that lists qualified DEAs in your area.

Your EA may be alble to do it, lots are qualified, but they tend to overcharge.

The new EPCs (only came in in Apr) are more useful than the old ones as they show which recommendations can be financed with Green Deal. You can push that side with your buyers. I've got to say, a jump of F to C is pretty huge - you must have massively renovated.

Roundtoit, you are wrong. EPCs are essential, it was HIPS that was dropped. EPCs are needed for all sales and rentals.

yes, sorry my mistake , i thought when they scrapped those sellers packs the EPC was included .

Oh sorry, missed one thing. You must have an EPC ready within 7 days of marketing your property. You can be fined for not having one . Most of the people that comission my DH do so before they've signed up to an EA.

I used this company recently and it only cost £39. It was for a 2 bed house so it may be a bit more for a larger house, but the guy was lovely and so quick.

the epcs are ridiculous!
We're looking to buy a listed home. The epc says you can improve by cavity wall insulating erm, no- the house is v old construction, no cavities to fill!
Also recommends double glazing no, completely not allowed in this particular listing and in conservation area.
Just bloody stupid really.

We did quite a bit but nothing bonkers:

• draught stripped single glazed sashes
• secondary glazed ground floor bay
• replaced single glazed kitchen casement windows with dg doors of equivalent area (1 less window)
• stripped out ex ceilings and installed kingspan high density insulation
• new condensing combi boiler
• all compact fluorescent lamps
• drylined the small area of vertical walls with insulation in the loft rooms below newly insulated roof.

I worked out the rating jump (and ruled out more expensive work) using a powergen website. I would love to know if it has worked out as expected!?

I agree the cheap ones are ridiculous. Maybe that is why they are ignored? But then what can you get for £39 ffs??

So basically even if i pay someone to do a decent job noone will pay attention because we don't expect good advice. Thst's depressing..

Check your lightbulbs. I was dropped from a B to a C because mine weren't energy efficient.

I initially thought they were a waste of time but as heating costs rise I am paying far more attention. Our latest property has a C - we moved from an F. What a difference!

Hmm I don't know about that. We complain every time we complete one, because the recs are generally not cost effective, but that is for the seller not the buyer. Trouble is most buyers don't read or understand them properly.

I think EPCs can be useful, but only if you know what you are looking for. Or if you can afford the major fixes. Simple fixes like energy saving bulbs, double insulation etc can jump a rating. But nothing beats a major fix - the ones that aren't worth it to a seller, but could be for a buyer.

Eg, if we had 250K to buy a place I would look for a house around £200K that had 4 and 5 star ratings (ie cav insulation, condensing combi, programmer, thermostat and TRVs and so on) then spend the 'extra' £50K on PVs, floor insulation etc - the stuff that costs too much to make it cost effective for most.

Odmedod - That DEA was shite. Listed buildings have their own section and a decent DEA would amend the database to take out things like Cavity Wall insulation and DG.

The database we use always suggests a wind turbine - but they cannot be sited in urban areas - so we take it out.

LtEveDallas, does your dh carry out energy assessments too, and make recommendations for improving energy efficiency? We'd be interested, if so - we're also in Oxfordshire.

I never look at them. They wouldn't influence my decision to buy a house in the slightest. That's not to say I'm not interested in saving energy, but I wouldn't be put off buying a house because it needed insulating or different light bulbs.

Oh and ours just cost £70 through the EA. I just noticed it recommends our floor should be insulated. It is insulated. I pointed it out at the time to the guy who did the assessment and he took a photo of it. Oh well.

Someone really needs to do something about epc's and the appallingly flawed methodology. I insisted ours was re-done as it totally disregarded all the work we'd done. Second time around it came out twice as efficient, yet despite the surveyor saying full dg would push it to an E, the only recommendation is low energy lightbulbs.
But my BIGGEST bugbear is that the whole thing is a fallacy. We use much less energy in total per year than the household average, but because the heating is electric the house is classed as not energy efficient. Electric heating might not be COST efficient but that's not the same thing at all! A draughty old house with rotten windows but gas central heating comes out more energy efficient than our well sealed, well insulated house and that is not right. EPC's encourage wasting energy in houses with cheap forms of heating.

Sinkingfeeling, it's the database that makes the recommendations, but we always take the time to go through them with the home owner. DH can assess a house for PVs etc but that is in addition to his DEA qual. An EPC is a good starting point and you don't have to be selling to have one.

I agree that the system is flawed, but as with most things is goes on the average. It also assumes for eg that 4 people live in a 4 bed home and that they use the heating for 16 hrs a day, and 21 at the weekend. What about gran who lives in her 4 bed in her own and only heats 2 rooms?

Plus there are unscrupulous DEAs of course, those that don't take the time and effort to complete it properly - again I'd suggest those were the cheaper ones working for the national company. If they are only going to 'make' a tenner or £20 for their work (those that complete for £39, like i posted above) are they really going to spend 3 hours doing a good job?

Rhubarb, you could have the EPC redone for that - if the evidence is there then the DEA hasn't entered it on the database - get them to redo it for free.

Gaelic, 'cost efficient' is what the buyer wants to see though. They don't want to buy a house that is going to cost them a fortune in heating bills. I see your point but unfortunately it is going to cost more to heat a house that is all electric. Plus with Green Deal the draughty old gas fired house can have a lot of that improved with government help. It sucks when you live in a place where there is no piped gas but again it's all about the averages. The database has recently been improved and upgraded but it would never be able to take note of all peculiarities.

That's fine and understood, but if they mean cost efficiency - and they clearly do - then they should SAY so!

Plus of course something needs doing about the huge disparity in heating costs on and off grid. Why is electric heating so expensive? Rip off electricity prices, no other reason.

I agree Gaelic, but Government lead, so when have they ever said what they mean!

gaelic i think the issue is that they can only rate the building rather than the way you use it. You could have a super efficient house but operate it to use maximum energy. The next owner of your place might flog the heating while you wear jumpers!! Electric heating produces much more carbon emissions than gas due conversion and transfer losses. The certificates are part of the government's aim to reduce emissions rather than anything to do with cost.

I wouldn't choose a house totally on the EPC but if i were choosing between properties it would be something i would consider and/or affect how much i might offer.