Is it discriminatory to ask a pregnant tenant for proof of ability to pay the rent?

[BergamotJasmine]

My letting agent has just told me that the new tenant who has moved into our house said that she has just found she's pregnant. She's does not have a live-in partner and is the only signatory on the lease.

I'm concerned about her ability to pay the rent now as it was already close to 40% of her income and most jobs pay little maternity leave. Would it be discriminatory to ask her for some written assurance that she has maternity pay in her job and / or someone who can act as guarantor for the rent if her income is reduced? My agent said we're not allowed to ask for this but I feel if we can't have some guarantee from her, then my only choice is not to renew the lease in 4 months' time.

I know in a job you're not allowed to ask employees about their plans regarding pregnancy etc but does this apply to tenancies? I thought the landlord was entitled to ask for a guarantor or some financial information if the tenant's circumstances change e.g. loss of job etc.

As you say - it's up to you what you do.

I got the impression you were a novice landlord because you said this:

I'm already subsidizing her to live there as the rent doesn't cover the mortgage.

To me, that sounded like you had pretty much a 'beginners level' understanding of the maths involved in property ownership and the financial relationship between a tenant, a mortgage holder, a mortgage company and the workings of the rental market.

I'm happy to be corrected and glad you don't actually think you're subsidising the tenant.

You are not subsidising her to live there!! WTAF? If he rent doesn't cover the mortgage how is that her fault? you can only rent the property for what it is worth. You could sell say that she is subsidising you actually by paying off what i assume is a large chunk of your mortage so forgive me if my sympathy.

You are digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole with your DSS comments too - why the hell should it matter to the other people who you rent it out to? So long as they are considerate tenants. They guy next door to me owns his house, as do i - he is incosiderate though as he plays his music quite loud and its quite frankly weird - only difference is he owns his house outright but im tethered to a mortgage.

Of course i wouldn't want people smoking in my property either as it would make it stink, it wouldnt make it a snobbery issue as it would be a choice thing.

You sound like one of those awful landlords that are thankfully in the minority.

FWIW i was initially on your side as you are of course entitled to protect yourself but its all the other crap you have written that has made me see through you.

well no sell

And I agree being a landlord is not for me, by the way. I always said I would never ever rent out a property in the UK because of the mess that the govt has made of rental laws and the way the system doesn't seem to work for either tenants or LLs and the fact that 98.7% of letting agents are crooks.

But what do you do if you own a house, having moved abroad for potentially 2 years and will be moving back,as far as you know? You can't leave it empty for 2 years as you're liable for council tax on top and insurance premiums are astronomical for a vacant property. It's a nightmare to sell and buy again especially if you have a house you like - so what do you do? All you can do is cross your fingers and hope you get a decent tenant who will not break the law or abuse your trust - and it looks like in this case I've been unlucky. Further issues keep coming to light with this tenant by the way but a lot of it is the fault of the agent for mismanaging the let I would say so I now have the joyful task of ditching both tenant and agent without somehow ending up getting sued in the process.... Property is the bane of my life and I absolutely hate it. I would rather never own anywhere but renting is awful too.

Well i have friends who are landlords and they are doing quite well at it, they are pretty clued up and considerate as landlords though. So i guess its not all shit is it.

OK, whatever Lucyellen - sorry if my comments on DSS offended anyone. I thought it was pretty commonplace if you're not a professional landlord to not rent to DSS, really. It's hardly an unusual stipulation - none of the family homes I looked in my area at when checking market rents were open to DSS.

That's not really the core issue I asked about anyway but clearly it's some kind of trigger phrase for people. This is why I hate property / renting because people get so emotive about it and make assumptions on both sides.

I would have thought the DSS issues are because they will only pay a certain amount of the rent. I have no problem with no DDS clauses, but when you try and justify your prejudice with worrying about the area, it makes you sound a bit of a snob.

Another thing, most landlords will welcome improvements made by their tennants but some, i suppose will be precious about this. But like you say, in such a grown up way - Whatever!

Totally agree that letting agents are generally tossers and if you've rented you'll know that the crap the landlord suffers from the agent - the tenant also suffers X 10!

If they're crap with you and you're paying them then they'll treat the tenants like dogs - which is probably why she's changed the lock - and is making sure they check things in front of her.

I don't know what the 'other issues' are but your tenant could be a nightmare or she could have worked out that your agent is crap and that the agent plans to stitch her up at the end of the tenancy over her deposit.

Bad agents make tenants behave in a way that may seem strange to the landlord but when you're on the receiving end makes total sense.

When something goes wrong, a lot of the time it's the agent causing it.

If your agent is telling you there's doing you can do about the pregant tenant - then bluntly, why are they telling you at all?

Sounds, at first sight, as though there's something fishy there - how did they even find out?

vivandtom - i totally agree. When i was renting the LA was crap, i just bypassed in the end and sorted with the landlord as they were to find the state of their house as the LA wasn't getting the repairs done as they needed them.

Totally Lucyellensmum12345 - they're always looking for some extra angle, churning properties so that they get all those new agreement fees, lease fees, insurance fees, credit check fees - they're bloody cowboys - or finding 'phantom' repairs which need 'emergency' callouts, from their' trusted partners'.

And then the tenant get's 'spot' inventory checks, random safety checks, compulsory inspection visits, pestering to let viewers in before the end of the tenancy.

If your agent is telling you there's doing you can do about the pregant tenant - then bluntly, why are they telling you at all?

MY Mistake, Should read:

If your agent is telling you there's nothing you can do about the pregnant tenant - then bluntly, why are they telling you at all?

Well, I guess the one thing we're all agreed about then is that letting agents are the spawn of Satan!

I would love to just rent my property out directly to a tenant and bypass them but when you're renting it out from abroad, it's really hard to do that. If I lived locally I would.

When we were renting we would never have made modifications without asking (we wanted our deposit back even if it wasn't good manners) so I agree with you there.
However I would have been very pissed off if my LL had demanded proof I could pay the rent once I was pg.
All in all I'm very glad we were lucky enough to be able to buy a house and get out of the hell that is renting.

Going back to your original problem... I'm not sure that you can or even should do anything at this point.

An AST offers a landlord a lot of protection - more than your tenant in these circumstances.

My first reaction - and I do tend to be a naive optimist in these things - would be why should anything change?

If she's two months pregnant with 4 months left on the AST, she won't even have started her maternity leave before the tenancy legally ends.

There's no reason to assume she's going to stop paying the rent or otherwise mess the place up during this period - if the Agent is putting bad thoughts in your head about this - I'd be wondering why - after all, as you say, they did all the checks and it makes them look silly.

At the point where you are legally required to give her notice if you want to end the tenancy, she may then choose to explain her circumstances openly to you - although I guess you'll get all this via the agent - who seems to want her out.

It's a shame you don't know her personally then you could bypass any bullshit coming from the agent.

For all you know, the the agent found out she was pregnant, told her she'd have to leave, she blew her top/threatened legal - and now the agent wants to make it look as if it was all your doing from the get go.

It's just another one of many possibilities :) Is it obvious I have a low opinion of agents ;)

If she wasn't pregnant when she took the tenancy, you might find she wants to leave anyway at the end of the AST.

I know that you can't do anything, because I was the tenant and it happened to me. It was the letting agents trying to turf me out for no good reason.

I phoned the ehrc and got some great advice.

Op, if you want the legal information, phone the ehrc. It's discrimination.

You couldn't and wouldn't do it if they'd lost their job, but still paid the rent.

TheMysteryCat nails it - while the tenancy is in force but, and I am not a lawyer, when the period of the tenancy is over and the agreement is up for renewal - surely either party can terminate - without any reason given - discrimination of any form is not a consideration

Unless I've misundertood the whole tread (always possible) the OP doesn't want to end the tenancy before the 6 month AST is up - does she?

What she wants is extra security / a guarantor for the remainder of the tenancy - which is probably a no-no as the deal has already been done.

So, once the rent is being paid, nobody can change the terms of the agreement without the consent of the other, until the 6 month AST expires
... which sounds fair enough.

when the tenancy period has ended, the tenant probably goes onto a rolling contract whereby the landlord has to give two months notice and the tenant one month's notice.

no, the landlord doesn't have to cite a reason, but if the tenant were to find out the reason then the tenant would potentially be able to claim discrimination. (grey area).

the landlord shouldn't be re-credit checking an existing tenant, if extending their contract, because there would be no justification for doing this, unless they have been having difficulties paying their rent. in which case, surely non-renewal of tenancy would be the default position.

i have to say, i think the OP is being extraordinarily unfair of wanting to end the tenancy due to pregnancy. as others have pointed out, the OP has no knowledge of the OP's finances - a credit check will not tell you whether they have savings, financial support from family/friends, a trust fund or whatever. there is therefore no reason to suddenly want a guarantor.

personally, if i were their landlord and there were no other issues (and I wanted a longterm tenant) i can't think of a more reliable option for a tenant than one with a young family who is highly unlikely to want to move in the short-term future.

and to give you my story a little more - the landlords were absolutely fine with me being their tenant and i was a very good tenant. when i did have to move (through no fault of my own) awhile later, they gave me a good reference and a present when i left.

i had been made homeless when i was pregnant - one of the most distressing and terrifying circumstances (and I was single). i had a job and would never have had a problem paying my rent. my absolute priority was finding and keeping a roof over my head for myself and my baby.

what kind of a cold-hearted person would want to turf someone out on the streets just for being pregnant if they were doing nothing wrong?

Hi OP, from reading more of the thread I think you should change agents but leave the tenant.

You say there are more issues coming to light, and of course you must use your judgement on what those are, but I respectfully suggest taking a little time out and thinking them through.

I've been doing this for 10 years now and even the very best of tenants have never done everything exactly as I would want. But I just keep in mind the only things that matter are the state of the house when I let it, that the rent is paid and the state of the house when it comes back. What goes on in between is not worth getting hung up on.

For me the bottom line is having the rent paid, and as she is paying it, for me there wouldn't be an issue. If she falls behind then I would act.

Sometimes it is better the devil you know and aside from the hassle of changing tenants, you have no guarantee that the next ones will be any better or worse. Being a LL, especially when it is your home is tough, you never know which way to jump for the best. So take your time and procede with caution.

If you do feel that the other issues that have come to light warrant you ending the tenancy then you should check out your insurance now before any action is taken. Check that you are covered for malicious damage and what the legal cover includes. If you need to make amendments to your cover then do so now before you begin any action.

Calm down, MysteryCat, I never said I was going to turf a heavily pregnant tenant out into the snow to live under a bridge. I have reservations about her as a tenant for other reasons and the pregnancy is not the main issue: it's her ability to afford the property long-term. Babies are expensive and I know that myself because we had our son in the house and bills go up a lot. I genuinely have no idea how she'll afford to live there on her own with a child. I certainly couldn't have with our son. If I could have some reassurance that my rent will be paid long-term, then the pregnancy would be irrelevant but apparently I'm not allowed to ask her for any reassurance.

She's not 'the devil I know' either unfortunately, oreo. She's only just moved into the property and announced her pregnancy within weeks of moving in. The coincidence of a single person getting pregnant within weeks of the lease commencing is just a bit too neat to be believed so I feel she's not a trustworthy person and deliberately concealed her pregnancy when signing the lease and clearly knows we can do nothing about it once the lease is signed.

As I said, there are other issues with her modifying the property and damaging it to the extent that I don't feel she is a trustworthy person or a good tenant. If she'd been living there for a year or something and this happened, it would be a different story because then I'd have built up some trust but as she's new my suspicions have been raised.

A lot of this is the agent's fault oreo so, yes, they're definitely out. If I could change agents mid-lease I would but I don't think I can. I'll be getting legal advice anyway.

"I feel she's not a trustworthy person and deliberately concealed her pregnancy when signing the lease"

Are you asked if you're pregnant when signing a lease? Surely not?

I was thinking the same thing RCheshire

I have never been asked if I was pregnant when signing a lease. AFAIK, it is none of my LA or LL's business if I am pregnant or not.

From the CAb website

"It is against the law for a landlord to harass you because of your disability, gender reassignment, pregnancy and maternity rights, race, sex, sexuality, religion or disability. Harassment can include both actions and language that you find offensive.

My LL suddenly asking for proof of ability to pay my rent just because I am pregnant would certainly be offensive to me

Do you often get so sarcastic and defensive when people say things you don't want to hear? How the hell has she shown herself to be untrustworthy? She's only been there for two weeks!!! You are quite happy to make money from this person, at least give her the benefit of the doubt. Im assuming you made the appropriate checks? references? Her job? If she signed the lease knowing she was pregnant then she clearly feels she can afford it - its that simple. Shit happens, you could have a perfect couple renting your house and they could lose their jobs and have problems paying the rent - this happens, its a chance you take i suppose.

She didn't tell you she was pregnant because she didn't have to. This is because it is none of your business.

bergamot it really is none of your business how she affords her rent, just that she pays you on time.

please don't be so patronising about the costs associated with a baby. i did masses of research when i found out i was pregnant and worked it all out precisely. why? because it was extremely important to, because it would keep a roof over my head and keep me and my baby safe.