Does anybody have/ know about grade 2 listed houses?

[civilfawlty]

I'm interested in two cottages, both thatched etc. One is g2 listed, the other isn't. Lots of other differences though. I'm trying to figure out, when comparing them, the impact of the listing on the value. I'd welcome any thoughts/ input. Thank you.

A lot of people prefer houses that aren't listed as they have more freedom to remodel them. It all depends on the reasons for the listing though - my previous property was listed but only for it's frontage, so I was permitted to do anything I liked to the interior and rear. A friend has a listed house in which the interior is covered by the listing and when he was renovating it the local conservation officer was round every week keeping an eye on what he was doing and telling him he couldn't rip out cupboards, must retain original plasterwork etc etc. The fact that there were so many restrictions and it wasn't permitted to knock out any walls was off-putting to a lot of buyers and meant the property had been languishing on the market a long time and he was able to get it for a good price.

If a house is listed, it is illegal to do any alterations without the relevant permission, regardless of what's mentioned specifically in the listing. This doesn't mean you can't do anything, it just means you have to get Listed Building Consent. An architect will be along in a minute to give more details!

Also approved alterations on listed properties used to be zero rated VAT, but that's changing from October to the standard 20% rate. This might have a negative impact on value.

(dons architect hat ) There is quite a good covering of the basics here : www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_note-listed_building_consent.pdf
It can put some people off as it's a bit more hassle than a regular house when you want to do stuff, can be slightly more expensive (there is paperwork involved) and unlike most property related stuff it's a criminal rather than a civil offence if you don't get consent properly.
Positives - they tend to have retained character and features and lack nasty UPVC additions
Tbh I'd be more concerned about the implications of thatch - check it's condition carefully. It's expensive to replace and can make the property expensive and difficult to insure. Make sure house has appropriate smoke / fire alarms installed.

Listed- you need consent to do most work- ie knocking down walls, internally replacement windows etc. repairs have to be like for like- ie replastering will need to be done in lime plaster etc. To be honest though, if your buying a historic building, listed or not, it takes different care than modern buildings in terms of repairs etc.

Like someone said up post it's illegal to do anything to a listed building without permission. Legally all of a building is always listed- there is none of the 'front only' in uk law, but often a sympathetic conservation officer will tell you what you can and can't do based on what's there and whats historic and signifucant- ie if there is a modern fireplace I'm normally relaxed about letting owners remove them as its not historic fabric. (I'm a friendly conservation officer by the way!)

SPAB have lots of online info and do owners courses. It might be useful if you go for the none listed house in any case as it sounds like it still has historic features.

I would say think about what is right for you. It depends what you want to change in the long run and how you see yourself living in it. Owning listed buildings can be very rewarding for the right owners. Also on the non-listed one, check that there are no restrictions placed on it- ie because it's in a conservation area. Those restrictions, however, are usually just for external changes, where listing covers everything.

Good luck!

We've just bought a Grade II listed house, but on the basis that we were quite happy with the layout and didn't want to knock it about that much anyway.

For first steps, I would try and get hold of the listing to see what they say is important about it (there is a listed buildings website, but our council has all listings online anyway). This isn't an indication of what they will let you do, but the level of detail and interior stuff included will give you a feel for the importance they attach to it.

Then, have an informal chat with the listings department - see if any permissions have been granted in the last few years. Again, this will help you get a feel for their attitude.

But the real question is would you want to alter either of them a lot? If you do want to alter the listed one it will be more hassle, as detailed above.

And there may also be surprises in the woodwork. We have what looked like an ugly 1950s extension on the back of our house, and want to knock through two rooms to make a kitchen diner, which listed buildings indicated should be OK. We've just discovered that it's quite a bit older and so at least one of my sets of folding doors may be biting the dust already. Sigh.

Thank you very much for such thoughtful and useful comments. I'm nervous about the listed status and think I'm more keen to buy the other - feels less scary. However, the listed property is £40k less (270 vs 310) but with views and parking (slightly smaller though) and I can't work out if that makes the other one over priced, or if the listed status impacts on the value. Don't want to pay over the odds because I'm nervous! So many variables. Arrggghhhhhh

This is an immensely useful thread!

Good luck, Civil. Difficult decision.

Post links and we'll help you decide!

this might help;
www.spab.org.uk/publications/look-before-you-leap/
oddly it is the second time i have posted this link this week!
i would love to own a listed house but i will probably just have to settle for working on other people's!

We're in GII, on the edge of a conservation area but luckily just outside it.

We are not allowed to alter the look of the house, ie do more than reprint or repair outside. However, we have pretty free rein inside. We were told a load of nonsense by a Town Councillor when we first moved in, but we had already had several meetings with the County Council about what we could/couldn't do.

We can't erect a Sky dish, nor can we have solar panels, nor the windmill thingy.

However, we can paint it any colour we like - we were very tempted to paint it glowing green just to annoy the Town Councillor woman, but in the end we didn't.

My best advice is to call the County Council Planning Officer or conservation Officer and have a chat about what you might want to do and what problems you might encounter from them.

Grade I is the difficult one. I think you're restricted even as to what colour you can paint your front door.

Tricot you are a mine of information. What do you do? [nosy]

I am a structural engineer and my favourite jobs involve building conservation, environmental sustainability and modern architecture - or better still all 3 together!

Ooh I might have to hire you! Pm me if you have a website!

It isn't so much that you can and can't do certain alterations in certain grades of listed property but whether those alterations would (in planning speak) 'harm the significance of the heritage asset'. The whole building is listed, not just the exterior and a feature of the building is still protected even if it isn't specifically mentioned on the list description. Some list descriptions, mainly from the 70s and 80s, are only a couple of lines long.

Grade I listed buildings are the most significant heritage assets. They are of exceptional interest and sometimes international importance. Consequently, they are often little altered from their original state and are far more sensitive to any alterations - those alterations are much more likely to impact on its historic interest. Consequently, the likelihood of being allowed to carry out alterations is much less. You may well be able to paint your front door though, if the building is in, for eg: a row of Bath terraces where all the front doors are different colours. No impact on its significance, if it has a red door rather than a blue one, next doors is yellow and the other side is green. You wouldn't be able to replace that door with a plastic one though.

There is a house near me (which I covet, but it is in the £1m bracket, so never going to happen) which was designed inside and out by a prominent local architect for him to live in himself. The interior is intact. You couldn't fart in there without an application for listed building consent and someone who bought it would have to be absolutely sure that they could live with that decor for all time, as they could only repair it, not change it.

OTOH, Grade II listed buildings are less significant. They are of more than local importance but can sometimes be significantly altered from their original state. Most listed houses which are lived in are Grade II. You may have, for example, a cottage which has retained its thatch, rural vernacular appearance, windows, etc, etc but which has been knocked about inside. You could pretty much do what you wanted inside then but would need to leave the outside alone.

A few listed buildings are listed pretty much only for their interior - these aren't often dwellings, but if they were, the opposite would apply, free reign on the outside, limited to what you could do internally.

Tricot, where are you? We need someone just like you but are in the SW...