our property becoming building site for neighbours development

[annoyednow]

The house next door has recently been bought. It was very run down and the new owners are doing it up before they move in. They were quite eager for us to see their work (still at early stages) so when they called yet again, I went over. After the tour, as I was about to leave, they said just one more thing and said the (ground floor) kitchen extension plans would be sent to us by council. They then just said casually I would be the only house to see it and they would be building on the boundary and they would have to work from my garden. The houses are adjoining semi-detached with wooden fence in between.

They then said the new wall of their extension would be there for me to extend. The thing is some of their house is a couple of metres longer than mine anyway and if I extended (say conservatory) I would have then come back into my own garden. it will seem like a lot of wall to be looking at. It is a conservation area so they have to apply for pp I think. Not simply permitted development.

Do I have to lose the fence? We are responsible for fence that side and were thinking of putting a better one in that side. Also, we have loads of bushes, garden features that side and it is right outside patio doors. Can they force workmen answerable to them to trespass in our garden for summer and effectively lose security and freedom of our own property on which wer're paying the mortgage. They would also ruin mature garden area.

We will be the only ones living on a building site (for a development that isn't ours).

Can they do this? They didn't as can they work from our garden. They told me they would have to work from our garden.

Write a letter to them (and keep a copy) thanking them for discussing their plans with you, but you will not be affording access for workmen and you will not be removing your fence. Keep it as nice as you can because you do have to live next to them!

It doesn't matter that they thought they were just telling you, you can interpret it as 'asking' and you can decline. If you're worried they will ignore you, call your council and ask to speak to the planning officer handling the case. And send them a copy of your letter too.

Also, don't give all the 'mature garden' reasons, just say "I do not wish to have your builders use my garden". If you give reasons they will offer to fix damage - you don't want the damage caused anyway.

I think this stuff is under the party wall act - gaining access, that is.

Look up the Party wall act. It tell's you your rights as a neighbour.
You do not have to give access but doing so will give a neater wall in general.
It gives you the right to appoint a surveyor to look after yor interests, but your neighbour has to pay for this.
you can see plans on-line on the council website. All neighbours should be notified. Hope this helps.

Thanks Lexi, I want to remain on civil terms, just don't want to be disturbed. It could be weeks or months I'm supposing and feel a bit ambushed. They didn't show any paper plans or anything and I didn't really engage with them on it. I'm thinking they are going to try andwalk all over us. I will check with the council and see if the plan is submitted yet. They did say they will put everything right.
Have to get ready for school now.

You can also object to the plans when they are posted....You may lose light, the development may be overbearing if its right up on your boundary.

And no, you do not have to allow access to your property for their builders for something not yet in place. I believe (and Im sure the planners will be along shortly) that if the wall is already in place, as a party wall, you would have to allow access for maintenance. But not for a new build.

According to the party wall act, they have no rights to build against the boundary without your consent. Apparently, you must disagree within 14 days, formally in writing. They will then have to build within their own boundaries. Allowing them to build on your boundary means you may actually be agreeing to fund part of this wall, now and in the future.

You should consider that they might have the right to place footings under your property, so you should seek a deposit before work begins to ensure that any damage caused to your property and fence/garden is repaired. You should also consider the impact of this build on your terrace property - will it disrupt the foundations of your own property?

If they are building right up to the foundry, part of the foundations will be on your property.

boundary. Not foundry. FFS.

there was a thread about this previously- a lady who had a problem with scaffolding across her door?

the upshot was, from knowlegable mnetters that they had no right what so ever to do this. You have limited rights to access to maintain your property but not to build new. So just say no!

We were those neighbours this time last year, and we HAD to formally write to our semi-detached other half to request permission to build, but we chose to build from our side of the fence. You should have a similar written request which appertains to their particular works.
This is the letter I wrote to them:

Dear Mr & Mrs Nice Neighbour
Re: Proposed Extension at our address

We are planning an extension to the rear of our property at (our address). We understand from our previous discussion that you have no objection to this in principle. However, as the extension will be built along the boundary line and will involve excavations, we have been advised that, in order to comply with the Party Wall etc. Act 1996 sections 1 and 6, we should notify you in writing and obtain your written agreement to the works.

The proposed extension and its foundations are as shown on the attached drawings. For the purpose of formality I should notify you that the relevant sections of the Party Wall Act under which the works are being undertaken are: 1(5) and 6(1). As you can see, the extension and footings will be built entirely on our land and we are not proposing to underpin or otherwise strengthen or safeguard the foundations of your building. We propose to remove the fence for the length of the new extension and to erect a new post at the end of the extension to support the remainder of the fence.

We will make sure that if any damage is caused to your property as a result of the works this will be made good promptly and at our expense. We propose to start the works after one month from the date of this letter, or earlier with your agreement.

Could you please write back to us within the next two weeks confirming whether or not you agree to these works? We obviously hope that you will agree as this will avoid the time consuming procedures that will ensue. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any queries whatsoever regarding this request.

Yours sincerely
The considerable people next door

They had some questions about joint guttering, the firm we had engaged, duration of works etc which they put to us in writing. I responded quickly in writing. they wrote back giving us "permission". Work went ahead - all very civil. No disputes. This is how you do it.
Hope that's useful!

ha ha - that should have said considerate people next door...Looks at rear view in mirror and shrugs.

Have they actually got planning permission for this work yet, because if not, then you could respond to the notices stating why you don't think it should be granted. As a result, the council may either oppose the planning application or may make your neighbours adjust their plans.

Also, and this is very important, as some posters have already suggested, if the work you've described goes ahead then it will come under the regulations of the Party Wall Act which is there to protect your interests. If your neighbours go ahead with this work then they will have to pay a surveyor on your behalf. This can either be a surveyor who acts for both parties or one of your choosing who acts just for you. They won't have any choice about this and he will be there to make sure that your house isn't damaged by the work and that the builders don't do anything that hasn't been agreed as part of the planning application.

If I were you I'd ring a local surveyor and ask him to explain your position to you.

Hope this all makes sense.

Hopefully they are just a bit clueless rather than trying to railroad you!
It is also rather foolish of them to get the council to send you planning notice rather than give you a copy of plans which will materially affect you!
However they have now probably got you annoyed which was a bit silly.

As said above they need to get planning permission and then when they get close to doing the work they would need to serve you with a Party Wall notice if they wanted to build on/up to the boundary. As part of the party wall process they should do a condition survey of your house and garden. You should get a copy and agree it with them. If they ruined your garden they would have to make it good as it was. If you are worried that they might not do this you can ask for a bond/money to be held to cover any damage. If you started getting into this level of detail you would need to ask them to appoint surveyor(s) to act for you/them.

I think that the Party Wall Act does have provision for access rights, but so much of it is about negotiation and neighbourliness that often it is agreed to build the wall "over hand" from their side. The trouble with that is that it will look blooming awful and it is you who will have to look at it!

If I were you I would print off the party wall stuff off the net, take it around and give it to them. When there ask them to give you a copy of their plans as it will affect your garden. Say that once they have permission you would expect them to carry out a Party Wall process and it all be above board. Ask them if they want to come to your side of the wall and see the mature garden. Highlight gently that they would need to protect this/make it all good and that if that sounded like it might be expensive ,then it would be best to change their plans now so that it doesn't require another round of planning permission later. You will be able to gauge from their reactions how easy it will be to deal with them later - but bear in mind they might also need a bit of thinking time, so maybe let it sink in and suggest meeting up over a coffee after a few days to see what they think?

They might be dippy and not have a clue what they are about. If you are sensible and open at this stage, you might save you and them a lot of hassle. If they are not open to all of this, bide your time and later ibject to the planning (check your local authority UDP for specific points which they do not meet) and insist they appoint a surveyor for you to act as a neutral third party regarding the Party Wall. Good luck.

Oh and be careful about saying you would want to enclose against their new wall or they might use the part of the Act which says that you would need to contribute to half of the cost as you would get half the benefit! This also applies if you enclose against it later as I think that technically they can send you an invoice!

No, I do not want to enclose against their 'proposed' new wall. Their house juts out about 2m from our house at the back and forms part of the boundary I think.

Further to the above, I have been on holiday. I told them this and they submitted the plans the first day I was gone. I still have some time to comment on the submission though.

I got the plans off the net and was gobsmacked by them. The boundary our side looks weird. It is straight until the back of our house. Then it is stepped right and they continue in this line until the back of the garden. Their roof is quite overhanging on our side, what with old fascia/soffit and guttering. They have drawn this as the boundary. The wooden boundary fence runs from the back of their house to the back of the garden in a straight line. It is our responsibility to maintain this wooden fence. There is no step in. We have quite a lot of planting parallel to the fence. The fence is very short and weak. We have only lived here a few years and have never done anything to the fence. I think I will remove some planting and strengthen the fence.

The extension itself does not show how far it is from the depicted boundary, never mind the real boundary. There is very little detail. I don't know if the length of the extension is from the house wall or the substantial stick out porch at the back.

There is a declaration signed by one of the couple that she alone owns all of the site of the application. Even if she were going to remove the boundary fence and build astride it this would be untrue, wouldn't it? The fact she has depicted part of my property as hers is clearly taking the proverbial isn't it?

I'm not sure where to go from here. I am now reluctant to give them any quarter at all.

Anybody have any ideas? Bump!

My MiL lives in a terrace and her next door neighbour got consent for an extension to the rear and then sent her a letter effectively saying they needed access through her property so that they could build it. She said no - and they had to tramp all the builder's mess through their own house instead.

Thanks mt. They didn't take part of her property though, which is what the the lady next door to me seem to be attempting.

Personally I would get a solicitor experienced in this area and make sure that the work has neithere foundation nor guttering which encroaches on your side of the boundary.
And to advise you on how to respond to the planning notice.
ASAP.
It will be worth the outlay, IMO - especially if / when you come to sell.

On the Council site, you should see the name of a Case Officer who has been assigned to the case - I would ring them up and let them know of the problem.

As I understand what you're describing, the proposed extension follows on from their existing extension, which is actually on the boundary - and they are proposing an eaves overhang and guttering actually on your side of the boundary - make this clear to the Planning officer and make sure that they know that not all of the 'application site' lies within the applicant's ownership and that you will not be allowing access to build on the boundary line.

Meanwhile, write a very pleasant letter to your neighbour, stating that you do not consent for building work to be carried out on your land; that you wish the boundary fence (which is your responsibility) to be left in place, and that you do not agree to any intrusion of any building materials including roof and guttering on to or over your property.

Call the council and speak to the case officer straight away. Tell him your concerns and explain to him clearly that you plan to object and explain your ownership of the land.

I not sure if this any use but I recently got an architect round to my house to discuss a possible extension. He told me that I needed to leave access around the possible extension so I can maintain the property.
We are only in the very early stages of thinking about a possible extension, so have not needed to query this any further at this stage.
Perhaps you could explore this and see if the neighbour does need to leave space to maintain his proposed extension.

Thanks for replies. Our houses do not go back the same distance. Theirs is around 2m longer. As we are attached, this extra 2m forms the beginning of our boundary. Their overhanging guttering etc. lies above this extra 2m which is at a right-angle to our back house wall. The wooden fencing then continues from the building boundary. They are showing the boundary line on plans further towards our side corresponding to the outermost of their guttering. This is our airspace isn't it?

They have an enclosed porch surrounding garden doors in the middle of their back wall. It does not extend the full width of their house. It rather juts out from the middle of the back wall.

I feel ambushed on many fronts. It is a conservation area. That is why they have to have application.

annoyed, its difficult to visualise what you are saying, but I would contact the case officer and invite them to see from your garden and discuss the extension. Then I would write formally to the council expressing your concerns and enclosing photographs of the areas concerned, so that they can see what you mean. DO not allow yourself to be pressured into allowing this development. You should mention in your letter that you will not be allowing access via your property under any circumstances, and that you consider their application to be a party wall, which you do not want or consent to.

Yes. I'll ring the council. Maybe I'll get a surveyer to establish whats what. I don't know why someone else's development is costing me time, stress and potentially money. The owner never even mentioned the boundary or if they were querying the boundary set up. Just whacks a colonizing boundary line on the plans. I have no goodwill now. I believe if I give them an opportunity at all, they will trample on me.

Thanks all.

Who drew the plans?
Gutters overhanging the boundary and no dimensions??
Sounds like they are clueless and doing it themselves or they have gone cheap on the plans. I wouldnt expect the planning officer to be happy with either of those things. Can you post a link to the planning site so we can add other comments?

Do you have documents showing the boundary position from when you bought your house? Get them and plot the line on this drawing. Attach a copy to a friendly letter to the neighbours cc'd to the planners pointing out the discrepancy that you want sorted.

Highlight that you will not accept their guttering overhanging your property and that it should all be within their boundary. Therefore they might think of amending their planning drawings as you do not agree to their current proposals.

It is too early and expensive and uneccessary to get a surveyor or s olicitor yet. But it might be worth getting fee quotes and chatting to some for future reference.

Dont jump to the conclusion that they inderstand the plans or boundary issues. Lots of people cant read drawings so they may have no idea about the offence they are causing. Keep the communication channels open & friendly to get what you want. If you get officious and grumpy they will write you off and do it anyway - it's hard to "do over" friend remember! So ffix a grin and be their new best mate!
Good luck.

Ps- has the house been extended before? Inc. porch, sheds, garages, conservatories, loft etc? If so highjlight these to planning as they may have used up the permitted development rights type areas so need special justification for over dwvelopment.