Please help MN DIY jury - do we put in a fitted kitchen or not to sell our house?

[Beachcomber]

Will try to be brief.

We are currently renovating a French 'town house' in order to sell it. We lived in it for years without a fitted modern kitchen. We have done all the essential renovations and the house is now a relatively blank slate (with old features) that we want to sell.

We have renovated and painted the old kitchen and it is now a clean white space. It isn't very big (but there is a dining room plus a large living room).

We are probably going to sell to first time buyers.

Do you think it is worth the expense and the hassle of putting in a fitted kitchen in order to sell the house or are we better to leave it as a blank slate and sell slightly cheaper?

We have other priorities such as changing an old door and some old windows, at a push we could do this plus the kitchen but frankly I could do without the hassle.

What do you think buyers would prefer - fitted kitchen or slightly cheaper and put in the kitchen of their choice?

Many thanks.

Oh definitely prefer cheaper and put in own choice of kitchen! It would be annoying to buy somewhere and feel you had to keep a kitchen that wasn't to your taste because it was new and you couldn't justify the expense of changing it.

Cheaper and blank slate to do kitchen. You're right, it's extra hassle for you which isn't needed really.

Thank you Rhubarb - that is what I think, but DH and the estate agent don't agree with me.

We have done A LOT of work in this house and it will (due to the nature of the French property market) still be quite a cheap property.

I'm loath to go through the hassle of putting in a kitchen that people might not like.

If we did put in a kitchen it would be something neutral and practical - hopefully something that would suit a first time (French) buyer.

I'm just not sure it is worth it though. A friend I have who works in property is convinced that a fitted kitchen would add lots of value to the house - I'm not so sure.

Thank you too Shakey.

Please post your opinion - it will be a big help. We really don't know what to decide.

The point (as ever with houses!) is to sell for a decent price fairly quickly.

What is in there at the moment? Is it just a bare room with a sink and plumbing? Do you live there?

Could you as a half way compramise get some free standing furniture that you could then either sell as an extra with the house, or put in an auction when it is sold? Do you know the type of thing I'm on about, big cupboard for a larder, side boards for benches etc.

I agree I would rather buy it bare but just thinking a FTB might not want to do that. Not sure what the norm is in france.

where I work we sold a kitchen to a certain property

4 months later we sold another kitchen to the same property to a different customer

first one they thought they needed to put a new kitchen in to sell
not to buyers taste so they took it out and put another one in!

as long at the room is clean and tidy, and there is something in there to give an idea of the space butchers block, free standing dresser etc then cheaper property price would be better

I've just bought a house. We went with the house without a new kitchen cause we didn't like the ones that were in the houses we saw. I'd be ripping it out anyway.

Don't bother putting in a new kitchen, sell it slightly cheaper.

Surely if you put it up for sale as it is and it still hasn't sold x months down the line, you could then look at putting in a kitchen and re-price accordingly. Non?

If you were selling to FTBs in the UK, they'd be almost certain to have pushed themselves to the absolute limit to get the finance. They will have many basic furnishings & fittings to buy. If the house has a kitchen, it's included in the mortgage. If not, they'll have to find the dosh from somewhere (and will cost them more to borrow it).

So, assuming the setup is basically the same in France, a FULLY fitted kitchen will definitely be more attractive to first-time buyers.

... if you're concerned about making customers happy, you could look at using unpainted wood units but that'll cost you more. Or do a computer graphic offering a choice of kitchens. Seems like a hassle, though; I'd just go for an appropriate package kitchen.

Mmm. Garlic, that is DH's reasoning - FTB will max out their mortgage and probably not have any free cash. In France you can usually borrow more than the value of the house though so in theory a FTB could add the cost of a kitchen onto their mortgage.

At the moment the room is empty (just a sink plus plumbing for dishwasher and plain white tiles on the wall). We aren't living in the house but I planned on 'dressing' it for selling - was going to put a table and dresser in the kitchen.

Agree we could start out with no kitchen and then fit one if the house isn't shifting.

Fitted kitchens are a relatively new phenomenon in France and often people put in a pretty basic one. A buyer who is coming from rented accommodation will almost certainly own a free standing cooker, dishwasher and a dresser as it is highly unlikely they would have rented with a fitted kitchen.

When we bought the house 10 years ago we had basic kitchen items - I'm trying to think if we would have considered an existing fitted kitchen a plus. I suppose we would have if it had been in very good condition and to our taste. If it wasn't to our taste we probably would have resented paying the extra on the house value for a kitchen we didn't like.

Aaaaah, can't decide. I really could do without the hassle though. At the same time we need to sell the house well as we are buying another one to do up and I suspect it is going to be a money pit.

Thanks for the replies, they are all very helpful.

I'd say it depends who your most likely buyers are - if french then I wouldn't bother as they don't seem to be big fans of fitted kitchens and it doesn't seem to be expected (from my dm's experience of buying/renting out property in France), i would just ensure all the plumbing/electric worka are in place. if the property is more likely to appeal to international buyers then I would fit one as they will expect it.

Having relatives in France, I'd say fitted kitchens as a concept are relatively new unless you are in a major city.

I would agree with dressing it for sale as you have suggested BUT I'd make sure to do it with something you would be happy to leave - then you can throw it in as a deal sweetener, they are not left with nothing and hey have a blank canvas to work with.

We bought our place in France around 5 years ago. It wouldn't have had a kitchen in it, but we asked the seller (who renovated it for us during the buying process) to put a kitchen in as we live in the UK and it made things a lot easier for us. None of the other houses we viewed had fitted kitchens though.

I would think that depending on the size of the kitchen, it might be worth putting a small run of base cupboards in, with a hob/oven, so that it appeals to UK buyers as well as french buyers. But I don't think that leaving it empty would really put people off as that is the norm in France anyway.

Oh, très bien, je me suis corrigée If French buyers aren't used to fitted & don't expect it, then plainly your Plan A is appropriate!

... but ... the agent wants a kitchen. Is s/he French?

Yes, I"d agree no kitchen. A new, good quality but not to our taste fitted kitchen put off us buying a house once, and that was in the uk, where estate agents would I think defo advise upgrading kitchen to sell.

If it is not common then I would not put one in - In Germany houses are let and sold without kitchens all the time. Often you can "buy" the one from the new house, and then sell it on when you leave, so they might be able to do this.

Thanks again for all your helpful comments.

We are in an area of France where our buyer will almost certainly be local. Spoke to (French) estate agent again today and she is convinced that house will sell quicker and for more if we put a kitchen in. She thinks it will be a real 'plus' and will help people get over the negative points of the house (over three floors and with a tiny bathroom).

Also the kitchen is the first room you walk into.

Bollocks, I really could do without this. Please keep any opinions coming though, the decision has not been made yet....

What about the plain blonde wood freestanding litchen units form Ikea? No faffing or fitting required, if the buyers don't want them, you can take them with you!

www.ikea.com/fr/fr/catalog/categories/departments/kitchen/10794/

Pishspice, I was thinking what a great compromise a moveable kitchen would be!

They do cost more, though. And ... if the French are newly enamoured of fitted kitchens (I still find this hard to believe!!) they might not get what we like about freestanding versions. I'm thinking of Brits in the '60s - '70s ... It's got a fitted kitchen! Look, everything fits together and there are no gaps to clean!

I agree that there's no need to put one it. I was put off one house which we liked otherwise because they had a sparkling new bathroom all marble and gold fittings, which they were inordinately proud of, and I HATED...

Mind you we did put an offer in! But I would have hated to live with that bathroom forever because it cost a fortune to put in.

Maybe the freestanding Varde units would be a good compromise - it's true when we bought our house we were pleased that on the surface there was nothing that needed doing and the kitchen/oven/hob were there.

I also agree that lots of French people (including ourselves) will borrow extra to cover the cost of work needing doing on the house, and also that the banks don't let you stretch yourselves to the limit, there's always reasonable leeway.

Most 1st time buyers wont have the cash for a kitchen after a deposit.
Also its very hard to get a loan after taking out a mortgage.
If you feel its defo for 1st time buyers the chances are they wont want to do the work anyhow.
The house will sell quicker with a kitchen, so weigh up if the 'X' amount spend of a kitchen or speed will suit you best.
If you do put one in, keep it simple no gadgets and put in something cheap and cheerful.

Do they have fitted kitchen designers in France? As in, could a designer come and measure, do a 2/3D plan of how it could look? Could that be a compromise?

That way you could show potential buyers the possibilities without doing any of the legwork