Does having a fancy high security imported front door mean that we can't add an additional lock or door handle?

[FannyPriceless]

This may take some explaining. Please bear with me.

Bought a house last year. Most joinery including the front door is fancy German imported stuff which the previous owners had installed.

We have a child-proofing problem with the front door and I want to put an extra lock on it. But if I look closely at the edge of the door, it looks like it has some sort of metal interior, and the one lock integral with the door appears to operate extra bolts at the top and bottom when you turn the key. It's not like a standard wooden door where a locksmith could just put another lock in. There are a whole lot of layers of metal and complex lock mechanism in the way.

The child-proofing problem we have is that the one inside handle is at a height that is now easily opened by both our 3 year old and our 1 year old. They could walk straight out of the house on to the A road outside without us knowing. I lock the door now, but it is not practical or convenient, I can't trust DH to remember every time, and it's just too big a safety risk to take.

I want to put a deadlock with a latch high up on the door where the children can't reach it. Does anyone know if this is possible with this type of door?

We also need to put a handle on the outside of the door. Sounds weird but there is no handle on the outside, only a key hole.

Apologies for such a specific problem. I have tried Googling but I don't even know what this type of door is called. (And apparently Mumsnet knows everything and is better than Google anyway.)

you probably can't fit an additional mortice lock. It sounds like you have an integrated multipoint locking door.

However, it is possible to take out one multipoint system and fit a different one, for example when the old one breaks.

There are local locksmiths who specialise in repairing multipoints (they usually repair patio doors and plastic windows as well). Most joiners will not be skilled at this job. ERA make a flexible replacement pack which has an ordinary Lever lock with a key like a mortice deadlock (which is incorporated). This has certain security advantages over a Eurocylinder. Look for all the makers names you can see on the key, lock and door. With luck the lock will be a standard European size.

If the inside face of your door is flush with the inside surface of the frame, and if the frame is made of wood, you can probably fit a Rim Nightlatch (like a Yale but there are better ones) as an extra, but making a hole in the door for the cylinder will depend what it is made of. Yours is probably a composite door. It might have a steel sheet under the surface. Locksmiths will be equipped to cut through it.

If you fit a BS Nightlatch, you will be able to deadlock the internal knob if you wish, but in this case be sure to leave a spare key out of sight on a small hook at the top of the frame in case of emergency. Otherwise you can fit it about eye level and use the knob to open the door.

Unless you fit, and use, a BS nightlatch, your insurance policy will probably not cover you for a break-in where the multipoint was not secured.

Wow! OK, firstly, it sounds like you know what you are talking about. Secondly, I am going to have to read that again a couple of times as it all sounds like another language to me...

Who knew doors were so complicated?

Ok, read it a couple of times and googled the multi-point thing. Yes, I think you understand what we need.

The inside of the door is not flush with the frame as it is also super insulating so has a lip. Pity as the Nightlatch would have been good. (I also totally agree on the safety thing about keep a key near by - terrified about being locked inside if there is a fire.)

So to replace the current locking mechanism - could we do that and in effect shift the handle to higher up on the door?

anything is possible, but I can't tell how difficult. Try to get recommendations for someone local.

PVC doors are always going wrong so you probably know some people with experience of a local multipoint repairman. Don't be talked into buying a new door for a thousand pounds.

I like wooden doors, when did you last hear of one going wrong?

I think I know this kind of door. it is very secure indeed, if locked properly.

what you can do is putting the inside handle so that is points upwards (like | instead of -) which makes it so much more difficult for the dc to open.
or get a round knob, which also is more difficult to open especially with freshly moisturised hands

Can you just add a bolt/ hook higher up?

Seeing as you dont need more locks for security as such but just to prevent escapees

I would replace it with a full wooden door, except it actually looks unusually nice and goes beautifully with the house. It looks like a very expensive solid wood door, but has all this secret weirdy lock stuff going on on its insides. Plus very eco-friendly, as no draft whatsoever.

Greek, I have considered that, but it is actually a bit more more complicated than I put in my post. (Oh no, I am drip feeding!) If the door is closed, it is locked from the outside, whether or not it is locked from the inside, iyswim. No way of getting in. The one year old is currently obsessed with closing things (drawers, doors, pop up books, etc) and the front door is one of his favourites. The potential for being locked outside with the kids inside is very real and frightening. I want to find a way that the door can be closed but not locked, as an option.

As a different approach......How about fitting some sort of alarm that goes off when the door is opened?

Although an alarm obviously won't stop you being locked out by your DC!

"If the door is closed, it is locked from the outside"

that's the secure way to do it. I have a rather special Chubb on my front door to do the same thing. It prevents walk-in opportunist burglaries, and it means you can never forget to lock the door when going to bed or falling asleep in front of the TV.

You might consider a spare key concealed in the shed or car. Taped inside the lid of a toolbox, or in a magnetic key-keeper, are possibilities.

"that's the secure way to do it." Yes, but rather impractical, you must admit?

Piglet, are you a locksmith? Or do you work for the Met's buglary unit?

no, I'm a burglar

In a previous life I worked for a building society, as then was, and a small part of my job was to look and see if the branch mgrs left their keys hanging out of the safe door, or staff propped open the fire exit when they went out for a fag, and I observed how to keep doors secure, and where keys should be.

I think that if you want to be able to open the door with a handle or knob, unless it has been consciously deadlocked with a key, that the ERA replacement lock will do what you want. It appears to have basically a five-lever sashlock with the multipoint function added. There are doubtless other makes that do the same thing. Someone needs to look at your door and existing lock to verify what will fit, though, before buying anything.

Thanks, you've been very helpful. Glad I didn't give you my address though, you naughty burglar.

Yes, I'll call around the local locksmiths to find someone who sounds as though they know about these locks, and get them to come and have a look.

Thanks again!