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The house we are buying has been reduced in value by the survey

45 replies

LaAmanda · 30/04/2012 10:29

What do we do now? We live in France but are coming back to London and have put an offer on a house that we kind of know.

The survey has just come back and it's been valued at 80k lower than what we've offered.

Can someone please tell me what happens next? We've never bought before as we've been serial renters.

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LaAmanda · 30/04/2012 11:17

Please, can anyone offer advice? I know our solicitor will give advice however he has not been the easiest person to deal with or to contact so I'd prefer some advice from mumsnetters and any experience anyone has.

I suppose I'm asking do we revise our offer down 80k or would the seller expect to negotiate more? The survey has said we should renegotiate down 80k. Do I send the survey to the vendor's agent?

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Methe · 30/04/2012 11:21

This happened to us but not by as much as 80k. I think what happened was we had to reduce our offer as the mortgage company wouldn't give us a mortgage for more then the house was valued at. Our seller had to accept it really but they weren't happy about it.

I suppose it depends on if you are having a mortgage or not.

thomasbodley · 30/04/2012 11:24

Survey valuations are routinely coming in lower than than offers at the moment. A lot of estate agents I know in London are very nervous about it.

It happens because surveyors need to indemnify themselves against being sued for losses if you end up being repossessed or otherwise forced to sell. They're clearly nervous about house prices because many surveys are apparently coming in 10% and more below agreed prices.

Your next steps depend on how much you want the house.

The valuation should be on a separate piece of paper. Give the EA a copy of this, and say because of the downvaluation you've no choice but to reduce your offer by £80k accordingly. You still love the house, want to proceed etc, but there's no way you can do it without being able to borrow the money, and the bank's not lending.

If you have a following wind, (the new price is actually not outrageous given recent local comparables, the vendor is desperate to sell etc) the EA (who will probably have mentally spent his commission already) will advise the vendor to accept because another offer may not materialise. You'll have saved yourselves an awful lot of money on an overpriced house.

This dream scenario rarely happens, unfortunately. You'll probably end up losing out on the house. Most vendors think, "I'll reject the offer and keep it on the market, and see if a higher offer comes along." Sometimes it does - someone with a much higher deposit than yours is unlikely to have their mortgage offer downvalued in the same way; or a cash buyer may appear from nowhere.

Sometimes a higher offer doesn't materialise, so provided you've kept the dialogue going with the vendor, your vendor may well come back to you and accept the reduced offer. It can sometimes take a year or more on the market for them to mentally process the "loss" though - can you wait that long?

If you really want this house, my guess is that you'll need to meet halfway on the price difference. And then you'll need to find the extra money that the bank won't lend you from your savings, or your refurbishment fund, or from the bank of mum and dad.

There are some other ways round this: you could commission a second survey using local comparables (local EAs will help you with floorplans and completion prices); you can pass on the price cut up the chain; you can apply for another more expensive mortgage with a lower deposit requirement, and use the difference to fund the gap. But I have to say, IME this is all just throwing good money after bad.

In the long run, you'll be better off finding a house that doesn't involve stretching yourselves financially to the same extent. Or renting until there's greater clarity in the market and surveyors become less nervous.

LaAmanda · 30/04/2012 11:58

Thank you both, your feedback is appreciated. We feel quite naive as we have never bought before. Been holding off for a house price crash for years but now we have children and for that and other reasons this house ticks all the boxes for being our home for the next 20 years.

Sounds like some negotiating has to be done. We are extremely lucky in that we are cash buyers - however I don't think this is going to help our case at all as we can't use "the bank won't lend" reason.

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DamselInDisgrace · 30/04/2012 12:04

You can probably use the 'the bank won't lend' argument anyway, as most other buyers will need a mortgage, so it significantly reduces their chances of getting a better offer than what you are prepared to pay in light of the valuation. It all depends on what they need from the sale and how much they're willing to lose.

RCheshire · 30/04/2012 12:06

As Thomas says, a lot depends on how you are paying for the house. If it's mainly cash then you could pay the agreed price regardless of the valuation. If you're dependent on a mortgage for most of the price then you clearly have a problem, as the bank are not going to lend you enough.

Surveyors are getting more cautious nowadays with their valuations, and banks are more cautious nowadays on what they loan. This is partly because they have left cash available to them, and partly because they expect house prices to fall - hence requesting 20% deposits for decent rates, i.e. if they need to repossess after the value has dropped 20% then it is you, rather than the bank losing out.

These three headlines say it all really, as they're all recent from the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/9225220/Homeowners-confident-house-prices-will-rise.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9228696/Mortgage-approvals-fall-in-March-outlook-weak.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/recession/9233781/Double-dip-recession-to-trigger-house-price-fall.html

What does the combination of those stories tell you?

  • much of the public think house prices will rise (reflected in asking prices)
  • the banks are very nervous about house prices (reflected in low mortgage approvals)
  • economists say they'll fall.

I'd be very nervous about buying anything that looks like current 'market value', and would stick to houses that look to be genuine bargains (which may well turn out to be just 'ok' rather than bargains in the long term).

RCheshire · 30/04/2012 12:08

Given you're a cash buyer and expect to live there for the long-term, I suspect getting some level of discount (if not the full 80k) may be the best outcome for you.

thomasbodley · 30/04/2012 12:18

I didn't realise from your opening post that you were 100% cash. In that case, you're in clover.

The surveyor's downvaluation is going to save you a bundle of cash - quite how much depends on your own negotiating skills - AND you're going to be able to live in your forever house because you have the means to buy it regardless of the valuation.

Like R Cheshire, I am pessimistic about long term trends in house prices. But I do think people need to start thinking about homes as opportunity costs again, not investment vehicles. If you love your house, it may - over the years you live there - repay you in the kind of happiness (or even just the lack of stress) you'd pay £80k to enjoy in other ways.

titchy · 30/04/2012 12:30

You don't need to give them a reason! It's up to you to decide the next move, don't feel guilty or obliged to think up some excuse.

A simple 'It's been valued at X, and in the light of that valuation we are revising our offer accordingly'. Then step back, be prepapred to lose the house, and look for something else. There are other houses for sale and as cash buyers surely you shoudl be able to negotiate a good reduction anyway.

Did you actually view the house by the way? Have you looked at sold rpices in that road? Looked at alternatives.

LaAmanda · 30/04/2012 12:31

I know, we are fortunate. We too think that house prices will fall - or at least stagnate in London for the next 15 or so years.

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LaAmanda · 30/04/2012 12:34

Titchy - yes we have viewed the house. Houses on this street don't come on the market very often so there isn't anything recent to compare prices with.

Do we ourselves do the negotiating with the EA - or do we ask our solicitor to do that?

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Northernlurker · 30/04/2012 12:34

That's quite a reduction in value. The house is NOT worth what you wanted to pay so you offer less and the vendor takes it or leaves it. Likely they will want to see the survey report before they agree. You're doing better than friends of ours though - the house they wanted to buy was valued at £0. Yes that's £0 - and the vendors have just put it back on the market at the same price as before - plainly looking for a mug to come along and buy without survey.

Northernlurker · 30/04/2012 12:35

Ask the solictor to do it or ring the EA and tell them then they can get back to the vendors. Sadly will probably be a shock for them - but that's the way that goes.

RCheshire · 30/04/2012 12:39

We're in the same boat in that we expect prices to fall, potentially heavily, over the next few years, but are keen to settle somewhere long-term (kids, schools, even being able to hang pictures up...!) so are looking to buy, i.e. it's an "eyes open" balancing the 'cost' of an expected fall in value against the positives of owning.

It does mean we are very critical when assessing asking prices and consider the vast majority of them to be sat in a dreamworld. We're not cash buyers but over 50% deposit + a decent buffer to cover a few years worth of income problems/higher interest rates/higher inflation - so at least an attempt to manage the risk.

Montblanc · 30/04/2012 12:45

I'd phone the EA and get them to go back to the vendor. Your solicitor will be charging you to do it!

You are in an AMAZING position being a cash buyer, so many chains are collapsing at the moment because people can't get mortgages, use your strong position to get a fair amount of that money off.

LaAmanda · 30/04/2012 12:45

Oh my goodness Northern. How is it possible a house can be valued at zero?

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Northernlurker · 30/04/2012 15:39

That's what my friends thought! The answer is when nearly every aspect of the house requires an expensive remedy and the final bill exceeds the value of the house.

soverylucky · 30/04/2012 20:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hanahsaunt · 30/04/2012 20:28

The land can be worthless if it's (potentially) so contaminated between probable subsidence of the sewage pipes (extensive - over 0.5 acre) combined with being on a Quaker burial site so relocation of bodies were the house to be demolished and the land cleared for rebuilding, it's not worth it. Probably one for a developer. If they can get past the parish council.

alabamawurley · 30/04/2012 23:05

Probably worth bearing in mind that whilst you are a cash buyer, when you sell there's a good chance that your buyer will be relying on a mortgage. If this is the case, you will be the one expected to take the £80K hit (possibly more if economic conditions deteriorate and lenders become even more risk-averse).

IWantSummer · 30/04/2012 23:34

What value is £80k to the overall price?
The percentage will influence your negotiation

LaAmanda · 01/05/2012 10:37

It's about 9% of the cost of the house Summer.

Alabama - if we go ahead we look on this as our home for the next 20 years, so who knows what will have happened by then. House prices might crash in the next 6 months.

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Northernlurker · 01/05/2012 10:49

Ok then - the vendor should definately take the hit!

LaAmanda · 01/05/2012 11:04

What's your reasoning on that Northern? I'm delighted if true and I'd love to have the arguments to back that up.

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EdlessAllenPoe · 01/05/2012 11:09

is there only one valuer on this?

presumably it was marketed at this price because an estate agent thought it was worth that and the old adage 'a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it' applies...

you have to go back to the vendor i'd say.. if they are going to get this from any other buyer you are in a strong position...