extensions - have no clue

[OnlyWantsOne]

Evening All,

DP and are planning on moving into our cottage (the tenant is leaving first!) and starting our extension.

We have had a "plan" drawer person to draw us up some plans, which she is doing - and she will help us apply for the planning permission needed. We have finance in place, but we would ideally like it completed ASAP as we will have to live there during works (for finance reasons)

so, I need some tips - how do I find tradespeople?
We will essentially be running the build ourselves, we cant afford the 10K fees for a "site manager" when we will both be there ourselves.

Essentially all we are building is a kitchen / diner and 3 bedrooms - plus converting the old kitchen into a utility with down stairs WC.

Any tips would be fab :)

(oh, and dont tell me Im mad, we dont have many other choices)

I hope this goes well for you. My experience was relatively good, and the builder was a decent chap but...
Our architect put together a very detailed tender which I think put some builders off ( it ran to 6 pages costing every single part of the job). I think it was just too much bother for some builders to sit and complete, so only 3 returned a price from 6 approached. Our final choice had done some work for friends and was okay, ( we chose him for being 10K less than nearest), however his PC crashed and he never produced a final signed contract which then caused some problems over the smaller parts of the job and he realised too late he had underpriced the job. We squabbled over laying of floors, which I had expected to be included and he said no! and he didn't finish a garden wall that was to be done, he tried hard to claw back some costs, like cheaper doors than I wanted. Now wish I had gone with more expensive builder, and I would have made sure the price of laying 26sq m of flooring and decent doors were included rather than a vague term. Afterwards I was left feeling that both he and architect got paid ion full but I still have some jobs that were conveniently forgotten. This annoyed me for some time (in the middle of the night), then I let it go!

Hi, we have done up a lot of houses. Here's my top tips

Builders only through recommendation
Be pretty clear on why you want eg number of sockets, light fittings, tiles or flooring included or not,
Have a contingency pot of 20%, you might well need it...there are always hidden costs
Be prepared to move out for a week during first fix (when it all comes together), very messy time that you want done as soon as possible

How much do you think it costs per sq foot?

It will take time too...

It really depends on what you are doing tbh. The house building and renovation mags have details and the RIBA have a sliding scale too

I guess it also depends on where you live as my family miles away seem to get builders a lot cheaper than us

not much help but always put a plug socket on the wall underneath your light switch - easy to plug the hoover in as you don't put furniture over light switches. We got a few quotes and talked to past customers as well. Be prepared for the dust, keep as much stuff as possible in storage or in other people's garages etc.

Hope it goes well.

When we were thinking of extending our house I bought this book it was really helpful in explaining things.

Read, plan, think. Services (gas, electricity, water, drainage) all have to come from/go somewhere. Talk to your builder about these and listen to the answer. Assume nothing except that if it wasnt mentioned in the quote then it probably isnt covered!

Remember that it is variation from the original contract which costs so once you have made a decision stick with it and dont make decisions lightly.

DH (an electrician) says listen to your tradesmen and take advice. Choose tradesmen who belong to trade associations (eg ELECSA/NICEIC for electricians, Gas Safe etc). A good tradesman will talk the job through with you, walk things through and discuss options.

Be on site as much as possible, nothing holds up a project like a lack of anyone to make their mind up. Be part of the team. You are going to be working with the salt of the earth so dont be a primadonna!

Be flexible as this isnt a new build sometimes things will crop up which require a different approach. Listen, research, agree who is paying for what, make a decision then stick with it.

Good luck and enjoy.

Have a contingency fund of about 10%.

Not good with imperial, but £1-1.5k per sq m (am surveyor).

Jasper johns - is that per level? Just one floor? So to do two story would be that figure x 2?

Per floor, yes

I am watching this thread with interest. Does anyone know what the internal room size will be if I extend out 3 meters from the house?

If you are project managing, can you hire people to do the various stages independently, so one for foundations, one for brick laying, one for roofing and so on, does that work ok? Is it cheaper than using a builder?

So if my extension was 8m x 8m...

trying to do the math

Only, minimum of £64,000

Actually DP and I have just worked out its 7.5 X 6 m

We only need a kitchen.... And bedrooms. Nothing fancy

I would imagine you have to put kitchen costs on top?

Our planned double story extension is 5.0 x 5.5 (x2) and quotes are coming in at the 50 -60K range. We're going to select one builder to do everything but the garden. Ours is a straight forward build though - nothing architecturally fancy.

Myron - what have you got in that new space? I'm trying to work out rooms and things

I think you are looking close to 100 all in

Miss, I would categorically say that this is not a good idea getting separate work people. The reasons (from bitter experience) are that ... Lining everyone up becomes a logistical nightmare (needing a plumber /tiler but not for a whole day) and you end up with gaps in your schedule (days when nothing happens)....if a work person drops out on you, finding another reliable one can be really hard to do at short notice...the overhead of their own project management is low

Our extension was about the same size as myron, slightly bigger, quotes came in 50K to 70K plus VAT. I would say mid range spec, no granite and travertine but not your bog standard bricks/windows/doors either. We won't have much change if any from £100K once kitchen, bathrooms, drive & garden are all added in. We did not go for the cheapest quote but for the person we felt we could work with best, and it worked out well .

Agree that managing trades yourselves, which we have done for internal fitout, is hard work and if you save any money it will be paid in blood sweat and sleep. We are juggling plumber, electrics and carpenter for the finishing works at the moment and it is hard work, spend ages going to get things for them because they don't plan ahead what they want. There is a noticeable difference from how smoothly things went when the builder was doing stuff with his people!

I highly recommend you get the Housebuilder's Bible for a dose of reality and friendly advice.

agree in writing a payment plan (in stages!) do not pay for the materials upfront a rep. builder will have accounts at most builders yards, don"t pay cash,ever! and (agree )to hold back 10% at completion re "snagging" >standard rules of engagement, and remember a quote is legally different from an estimate

What is the legal difference between a quote and estimate?

Yes - quotes exclude VAT. Downstairs - the extension space will be essentially be a second reception room which will be open plan to the existing kitchen, utility and dining room (both walls knocked through to create one huge open plan area on one side of the house - we have the main sitting room and study on the other side of the house). Upstairs, the extension will be a new master bedroom with ensuite bathroom and dressing room. The extension itself should definitely come in on budget. Our other internal restructural/renovation work plus new kitchen, bathrooms,windows, doors, boiler,flooring, etc is coming in at a similar price to the extension! The garden will have to wait until the year after.

one is a vague idea of the final bill the other is more legal in court if it goes there, a seriously good builder should be able to nail the price + - 10% all the advice given on these posts is great for you, ensure what materials specified is what is used on job!if it says Italian marble make sure that"s what they use!90%planning /learning/discussing etc the rest is i"m afraid blood sweat and sleeplessness.It"s like a jungle out there..........good luck

3 bedrooms and kitchen diner is significant so don't underestimate the build phase especially the internal work. You have been given excellent advice so here is some more to add to the list.

Use a builder that is recommended and that you can talk to..This is important, you need to feel that that you can speak about issues and they will be working on your house for 3-4 months so it's important you can communicate.
Work out how they will do the build - most builder are vague about the internal stages, if they are changing the kitchen how long will you be without facilities. Moving out at this stage is an excellent idea- think of short term holiday lets.

Builders will need to use the loo/makes cups of tea - will they provide facilities or use yours? What hours & days will the builders work, is it 7:30am start and also Sat morning?? Gets the build done sooner but does mean you tend to have be up and dressed early every day.

Source the products you want early - decisions need to be made earlier than you think. i.e floor levels determine if you are having tiles, or amtico.

Is the current heating system sufficient - will this be upgraded? can be costly and may need new external pipework (if you go for a megaflow system).
Remember all costs have 20% VAT so 80k build means you are paying £100k.

Think about the costs for the disruptive work - if you are extending current garden will need overhaul - include costs for replacing patio or repairing driveway.

Have the costs breakdown detailed - what is included in electrical costs? don't assume spotlights are included as builder may assume bog standard ceiling rose.
Don't assume anything and have it all agreed in writing - don't rush to appoint a builder if you don't have the clarity. Before you start the build is your best negotiation time, anything after you are likely to have to pay for anything extra.
Which of you will deal with builder queries ? you or your husband? Have you allowed time for this

Good Luck - it can be stressful at time but all very possible