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Original poster

WWYD - nearing the end of a renovation but they've messed up the bathroom tiling...is it our fault?

30 replies

gobblygook · 11/02/2012 23:05

So we're nearing the end of a renovation. it's been going on for several months and the builders have been v good (and it shows in their invoices)...but I think someone's taken their eye off the ball.

We are not living there and we usually check in the evenings (no natural light, in fact hardly any light).

This morning I went to the house to check on the bathroom. it was tiled this week with Johnson's Prismatics matt satin white tiles. What's clear is that the satin white isn't quite white. Some tiles have got a very very pale pink flush to them, and worse still, others have a pale pale blue flush. It's noticeable, probably more so at different points of day / in different light.

So - we bought the tiles, which I'm sure the builder will defensively point out. Obviously they are defective batches: I've no idea why they are two different colours but I'm assuming two defective batches. This pisses me off because Johnson's is a good brand and they're not cheap, cheap tiles. £24/sqm.

But why didn't their tiler raise it during the week as he tiled? Don't you think that's negligent? Did he think we wouldn't notice? That's my argument. Why didn't someone tell us? We pay them to project manage.

I want them to retile. Am I being reasonable? What really gets my goat is they charged a fortune for tiling, too. It was the one main area of the schedule of works I really argued over and beat him down on because I couldn't believe his pricing.

God I hate this process now. I will never renovate a house again. I am almost beginning to wish I never had to see the house again.

OP posts:

BulstrodeTheApatosaurus · 11/02/2012 23:16

Slight pale blue tinge & slight pale pink tinge? Tiler may not even have noticed & just went ahead & tiled with the tiles you had bought presuming you checked them beforehand. Can you have a gentle word with the project manager?

PrisonerOfWaugh · 11/02/2012 23:26

You said yourself that at different times of day/light it is more or less noticeable - maybe no-one noticed?

It is a tricky one, you supplied therefore I think you are technically responsible. You will have to go back to your supplier I think. My gut is that your builders are not responsible.

DaisySteiner · 11/02/2012 23:27

How interesting, we had EXACTLY the same issue with Johnson's 2 1/2 years ago!! We even had Johnson's out to look at them and they refused to accept liability for re-tiling expenses although they would have given us more tiles, and the tiler refused to accept that he should have noticed. So we had to choose between paying to have the whole lot re-done and putting up with it. To re-tile would have delayed the rest of our build (couldn't knock down old bathroom until we had a functioning new one), so we put up with it.

Anyway, I would argue that Johnson's shouldn't have sent out tiles from different batches and that a decent project manager/tiler should have checked that they were from the same batch. Hopefully you'll have better luck than we did!

catsareevil · 11/02/2012 23:30

Are you sure they noticed? If it took you a while maybe they didnt spot it?

PigletJohn · 11/02/2012 23:32

iirc it usually says on the boxes "check all boxes show the same batch number" and you are meant to do that when you buy them

sarimillie · 11/02/2012 23:33

Tough one this. You might get the answer you want when you raise this, but, just in case you don't, it may well not be that obvious one it's all finished and moved into. I remember being really agitated about how our tiler placed some limestone tiles- thought the darker ones were bunched together in an ugly way. Now I look at it and can't see an issue.

Original poster

gobblygook · 12/02/2012 07:16

Thanks all. Yes I can see that they'll say we should have checked...we'll have to see

I did notice immediately on going to the house in daylight after the tiling had been done. I don't believe they didn't notice - and the tiler has had 30 years experience apparently so maybe he could have checked - the boxes were unopened.

Daisy - do you still notice it now or is it something that goes away?

OP posts:

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 12/02/2012 07:28

Yes I think it would be unreasonable for the tiler to retile at his own expense. The issue is with the purchaser (you) or the manufacturer, not the quality of the tiling. The cost of the tiler has nothing to do with this issue as you are not querying the quality of the job done, but the materials.

fresh · 12/02/2012 09:34

As you supplied the tiles, it's your responsibility to have checked them before they went on the wall. Tiler just puts up what he's given, he has no way of knowing that this wasn't what you wanted. He probably sees all sorts of mad tile combinations chosen by clients and has learnt not to comment. Yes, some tilers might query it if you're around, but if you weren't there then he would have known it would hold him up for a day while you checked. Plus you say you beat him down on price? Hmmm...

You're at the end of what sounds like a large renovation and everybody's wishing it was over. Of course you want it to be perfect but I'd lay odds that after a while you won't notice.

I've had this issue with floor tiles for a client although we hadn't laid them. Heaved several boxes back into the car and took them back - and of course they were 'within tolerance' so tough. And now they're down? Client loves them, no-one thinks there's anything wrong with them.

kitsmummy · 12/02/2012 09:42

I agree with others that it's not the tiler's fault. I do think Johnsons should rectify it (eg pay for re-tiling) but if they won't I guess you should either get free replacement tiles from them and then either pay again to have it re-tiled or sell the tiles on ebay

Original poster

gobblygook · 12/02/2012 09:53

I do understand where you're all coming from and I will be reasonable. It is our fault for not checking -

But - in my defence. There was no 'mad combo' of tiles to put up. They are all meant to be white and the tiler knows this. We discussed it when I went over and we talked about what he was going to do. So it's not like he starts in red and then opens up a box of green and thinks, hey crazy, but I'll do what the client wants. White is white.

Anyway. It's easy to get very very irate about these things when renovating but actually it won't matter. My plan of action is: speak to builder, let him know what we think; most likely accept he won't do anything; get onto Johnsons, make a huge complaint and see what they say....in the meantime live with the tiles and if we can't live with them in say 2 months, rethink.

I intend to really get onto Johnsons. The batch number on the boxes has not even been printed properly; cut through half of the number.

I intend to let them know that I don't intend to back down and my background is in PR.......

OP posts:

PigletJohn · 12/02/2012 11:04

I am a Project Manager by trade (not for houses) and if the client supplied some materials, I would consider it to be their hard luck if they later decided the materials they had supplied weren't right.

Sometimes clients do that because they think they can get things cheaper, or they resent the contractor adding a mark-up.

If the contractor supplies materials, he is responsible for them. If not, not.

Original poster

gobblygook · 12/02/2012 11:43

Hi Piglet John - yes I take your point. Thanks.

However, DH and MIL have just been over to the house and found a box of tiles with hand marked crosses on the back, tiles that the tiler has discarded because he obviously realised they were faulty.

Don't you think then someone should have called us and said there's an issue with the tiles? Isnt that what a project manager is for? Instead of continuing and producing substandard work?

OP posts:

catsareevil · 12/02/2012 11:46

If the tiler marked and discarded some of the tiles then it wouldnt have made sense for him to have used any tiles that he thought were wrong - otherwise why go to the effort of discarding some but not all?

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 12/02/2012 11:50

How many sq metres of tiling is it?

Original poster

gobblygook · 12/02/2012 11:53

About 11sqm

OP posts:

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 12/02/2012 11:55

So about £300 for tiles and £600 for the tiling?

Original poster

gobblygook · 12/02/2012 11:59

About £300 for tiles and £700 (negotiated down from £1100) for tiling

OP posts:

noddyholder · 12/02/2012 12:01

I renovate houses and check everything. You would be amazed how often things like this happen as virtually every time I have rushed things and not been as thorough there has been an issue of some sort. It is not really the tilers fault esp if the shading is very subtle he may have thought that was part of it. This lies mostly with the suppliers and if you hassle enough they should replace the tiles at the very least. I think you will have to repay the tiler though as you will have to accept some of the responsibilty

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 12/02/2012 12:10

Are you certain the tiles are faulty or from different batches and therefore not what you ordered? Who supplied the tiles to you? Did you order directly from the manuf or from a tile shop?

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 12/02/2012 12:12

Also, did you have a sample/ see a sample before you purchased the tiles?

noddyholder · 12/02/2012 12:15

They sound like they are pearlised?

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 12/02/2012 12:19

Is it possible some tiles have been hung upside down, hence some appear pink and some appear blue?

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 12/02/2012 12:20

It would be cost effective for it to be the tiler's fault.

Original poster

gobblygook · 12/02/2012 12:45

Hey it's not about me decidin to be cost effective - we are fair people. I just don't think it's entirely of fault

OP posts:

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