How to find out if an extension had planning consent

[Zeeky]

We are selling our house & there have been lots of questions over the extension on the back. When we bought the house 8 yrs ago, our solicitor & surveyor both informed us that the extension (approx 5ft x 30ft single storey to back of house making dining room & kitchen a bit bigger) had been added at time of build & no paperwork was requested regarding it. Now we are selling & our buyers solicitor has discovered that it was in fact added 15 yrs ago, and that there was a covenant in place when the property was first sold in 1982 by the council to say no extension was allowed unless consent was given by council, which they don't think was sought. Our solicitor is now telling us that we either have to get retrospective planning consent from council at a cost to us, or take out indemnity insurance to cover the breach of covenant costing up to £500!!

Is there any way to find out if there was planning permission granted at the time of the extension? I can't believe that anyone would build an extension (even 15yrs ago) without getting planning permission [sceptical]

This whole process is turning into a nightmare. We are supposed to be moving in 3 weeks as our buyers have to be out of their rented place then, and we have had huge issues with our purchase (long story - listed building been renovated, was part of an estate originally but loads of missing paperwork resulting in our solicitor doubling her costs due to all extra time she has incurred) and now they throw this as us! I don't see why it matters - it predates us by years, it's not like it is something recent we have done that may come back to haunt them [grr]

The planning department at the council will have records, you can go in and ask them. They are usually very helpful. Did the legal pack (the one for your current house when you bought it) have anything useful inside??

How can they have discovered that it was built 15 years ago?

I would pay the indemnity in that situation.

Soupdragon I've got no idea how they know it was built 15 yrs ago - would it come up in searches, and if so, why was it not raised when we boug the house 8yrs ago? Solicitor is telling us that if we start asking council about it then it will alert them to the fact that there may be no planning permission/ consent under covenant & then we would not be able to get imdemnity insurance as we would have effectively "tipped off" the council, and then would have to go down the retrospective planning permission route which could take months! It all seems a bit cloak and daggers to me.

There are certain sizes that are excempt from planning regulations. I can't remember off the top of my head what size this is though but my neighbour has managed to do this. You don't need to say anything to the council, just ask them if they have recieved any planning applications in the past 15 years. You can also possibly look online, it depends on how far back the records go though.

Right, just re-read letter from solicitor. She says it is not to do with planning and buildings regs consent but Consent required under the covenant. It is this consent that we would be required to obtain retrospectively which cost a few hundred to obtain potentially. What on earth does this mean???

The Council would have a record of whether planning permission was granted, but if it was it should come up on a search. It is quite possible that the extension came under 'permitted development' and didn't require planning permission at the time. A clause on a covenant is different - permission may have been needed from the Council as the seller of the property and former owner, but this isn't necessarily the same as requiring planning permission.
You also say that the extension was added at the time the property was built - this may be covered by an amendment to the original planning permission for the house rather than a separate application.

You really need to chat to the Council planning department and possibly also the legal/housing department to find out about the covenant requirements.
Just to settle your mind if the extension has been in existance for more than four years is is exempt from enforcement action under the planning legislation.

It means that any extension required council permission. This is not building regs or planning but is probably something listed in the papers from when it was built saying consult the council if you want to make changes.

Ah, so they know when it was built because it probably did have planning permission. Is there any come back on the solicitors you see for the purchase given they didn't spot the missing covent permission?

Unfortunately the solicitors we used to purchase the house are no longer in existence (one of the partners embezzled millions & it had to be dissolved!) I am annoyed with them more than anyone about this as they should ave flagged it to us then and got indemnity from the vendor. The vendor we bought it from had only been here a few months (his partner left him so he had to sell again), and before that the house had changed hands a few times, so I find it hard to believe that this is the first time that this has been raised as an issue

We had something similar when sold our house recently. The covenant said we couldnt put a fence up or change the windows without permission from the council. It was a ex-la house and was written into the deeds when it waswas sold by the council. I happen to know the people who bought it from the council, so i know the fence was alread there at the time of sale. Cut no ice and we had to pay £100 quid for the indemnity.

I suspect it 's become more common since we bought because the insurance companies have invented the product and the solicitor have bought into it as a convenient solution for odd little issues like this.

I think your solicitor is just covering her, um, posterior. If the sellers really want your house they will proceed. This size of extension, if it is to the rear of the house, falls outside of the dimensions that currently require planning permission.

If your sellers are that worried, why not suggest you go halves on the indemnity?

If planning permission was required but not sought and the building has been up for more than 4 years you would not have to apply for retrospective planning permission. You could apply for a certificate of lawfulness for an existing development where you would have to provide sufficient evidence to support your claim that the extension has been there more than 4 years. Tis could include:

Estate agents details from when you bought the place.
Dated photographs
Aerial photos
Signed statutory declarations from people who have known the extension has been there for more than 4 years.

The council will not take any action even if you weren't to apply for this unless they felt that they could prove it was built less than 4 years ago. Which sounds unlikely.

You have the option of applying for one now, which will take about 8 weeks at least to process. Or if you provided the information proving longevity to the solicitor and referred him to the 4 year rule he may (though suspect this is unlikely) be happy to proceed on the basis that enforcement action can't be taken.

Whether you might have needed building regs approval or whether that was sought is a different, separate matter.

An official covenant is nothing to do with the council.

Need/failure to obtain planning permission after this length of time would be way out of time for the Planning Department to be interested or able, to do anything about it.

Not sure about any Building Reg requirements though - you would need to speak to Building Control Dept of the Council re this.

Covenants are to do with the builders or previous owners and any conditions that they may have placed on the property and should be specified in your deeds. So these need to be checked. The only time that the council may be involved with a Covenant is if the Council perhaps were the previous owners of the property.

You can sometimes check online these days so ' no tipping off ' required.
Go to council website... Planning pages ...& look for something like view planning applications. There should be a section to search and view applications and you can usually search by address.
That should show what has and hasn't been applied for for your property.
Not all councils are uptodate with adding their records but there are quite a few up there now so it's probably worth a look

I echo friedspout- a covenant isn't a planning issue and they won't care whether or not you have consent- after 4years it becomes immune. You can legally rectify this in planning by applying for a certificate of lawful development but that still not may cover the issue of the covenant which is a separate legal matter. I'm surprised your solicitor has suggested this tbh.

Council won't care about lack of PP after this time but buyer & buyers mortgage company will especially if they want to do anything to the house later

The covenant could be something to do with the council if they are named in it.I owned a flat years ago that was a freehold flat and the flat below was also freehold and no lease just a covenant and some of the stipulations within it had been set by the council wrt the externals of the building I remember we put a fence up and it wasn't allowed according to the deed

Thanks for responses. When the property was sold in 1982, it was owned by the council, which is why the covenant is favouring the council & permission was needed from the council. Planning permission seems to be in place and is anyway 15 yrs ago. Our solicitor thinks it very unlikely that the council would ever bother to investigate the breach of covenant, but we shouldn't risk alerting them to it. Not sure how the solicitors know that there was no permission granted at the time if no-one has actually the council!

You can look up planning applications online.

The probably don't know there was no permission but simply can find no proof that such permission exists.

I would try to go halves on the insurance with your buyers.

We did some work on our house with proper building regs but did not obtain consent from council re the covenant (as hadn't been aware of it). It came up when we were selling and we paid a fee for retrospective consent - it was not a big deal and easy to sort out (but annoying about the money I think £175). When I rechecked our solicitors notes from the sale the covenant was mentioned so our fault. However the property we bought also had an extension (over 30 years old) and the same covenant. Our solicitor advised it was unlikely consent was obtained re the covenant (every property around here must have one!!) but we went ahead with the purchase. Our solicitor didn't think it was a big deal. We were advised that councils are very unlikely to invoke theses covenants.

I suppose if your buyer is not going to proceed without this it might be better to pay the retrospective fee. I would call the council it could be because the extension was built before you owned it you might not even be liable (you never know!). I dealt directly with the council and found them very helpful - I did not want to run up a higher solicitors bill. Hope all goes well.

Meant to add I think these covenants were just added by councils as money spinners because you really just have to pay the fee to get permission we didn't need to give any plans etc just advise a letter what we had done.