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Talk me out of wanting this please...

73 replies

partridge · 31/12/2011 13:21

We are just about to spend £60k ish creating a lovely garden room with woodburner and shower room in our 4 bed terraced garden/ ground floor flat in the west end of Edinburgh. We bought at the height of the market and probably wouldn't make it back, plus have already spent money on it.

We have 3 boys and I have always fantasised about spare bedroom/ big hall (spoilt I know) so whilst I love our flat it was really bought as a 5 year plan 3 years ago with a view to buying a house eventually. Then the market spiralled.

This house is literally directly opposite the school my ds1 goes to and the others will follow (currently have a v hectic 1hr round trip school run for school/nursery). It is in a pretty run down street in a not as nice location as current flat, although lovely boutiquey street at end of this one - current location much nicer.

But oh I do love it. Inside track at estate agent says needs £150+ spent on it. If we sold well we would end up pretty much equal. But that is a big if. I have a new baby and don't know if I could handle the stress of marketing our flat. Plus I have a very reactionary and cautious dh who would probably veto outright.

The basement is not included in this sale. Wwyd?

residentialsearch.savills.co.uk/property-detail/307096

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GrendelsMum · 02/01/2012 18:44

Is it really going to be so costly to repair and renovate? What actually needs doing?

It is listed, and not only listed, but Grade A status, so of national importance (Here's the listing hsewsf.sedsh.gov.uk/hslive/hsstart?P_HBNUM=29263). You'd need permission for all alterations, inside and out, and this does mean that specialist techniques may need to be used, which as a rule of thumb doubles the ordinary cost. That house is so special that perhaps you have to triple the ordinary cost. You might be able to talk to Scottish Heritage, SPAB and the local Conservation Officers (or whatever the scottish equivalent is) about it to get a better idea.

In terms of altering the floor plan, I'd guess you wouldn't be able to take out any walls that aren't modern additions, or move or add any doors, but you could put in new walls, although they'd risk spoiling the proportions of the rooms.

I can see it needs central heating (at least, I can't see any form of heating at the moment), which will then mean that you need re-plastering (by a specialist firm) and re-decoration throughout. You'd need listed building consent for that.

This is going to sound absurd, but I wonder whether it's large enough - or rather, if it has enough usable bedrooms and toilets for a family. If you have a look at the floor plan, it seems that the layout on the ground floor is okay as it is - kitchen, dining room, sitting room and study. You remove the shower from the study. I'm assuming that the kitchen would benefit from being re-fitted, but it might be fine. There are no loos on the ground floor, the kitchen is rather small (no room for a table) and there's no utility room, but it's not a bad layout at all. If the division between sitting room and study isn't original, you could take that wall down too, perhaps.

Then, on the first floor, you remove the second kitchen and turn that into the family bathroom, accessed via the 'breakfast room' (or 'breakfast room' becomes a family bathroom and 'kitchen' becomes a very large en-suite). You remove the current bathroom (assuming that's a modern addition) so that Bedroom 2 returns to its original proportions. One of your children goes in the current Master Bedroom, one goes in Bedroom 2, and you and your DH take the current 'family room' upstairs for a truly vast bedroom. Hey presto, three nice light bedrooms and one bathroom / toilet. You might even be

The second floor is more tricky. Bedroom 3 and Bedroom 4 look as though they're going to be very dark to me (former servants quarters, presumably). I don't think you'd want to use them for family bedrooms, though one could be a guest room for occasional visitors and one a play room to get the kids out of the way of the lovely sitting room and dining room. It does have another shower room / toilet. Bedroom 5 is definitely on the poky side - just a glorified boxroom with a window, really! Plus I bet it's freezing up there in the attic.

Here's an interesting article from last time it was sold
www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertyadvice/propertymarket/3316102/Beyond-the-Fringe-the-wreck-of-ages.html

I don't know whether all that puts you off or encourages you!

Terpsichore · 02/01/2012 19:00

That is the most gorgeous house, and I can quite see anyone falling in love with it. But that article would ring major alarm bells with me. 18thc papier-mache? Yikes. I've lived through trying to restore a period property with far less specialised materials than that, and it was a nightmare. And mine wasn't even listed. The level of involvement by the conservation officers (or Scottish equivalent - sorry, don't know if they're called anything different there) would be pretty intense, I bet. As in every tiny step of the restoration being hyper-scrutinised to make sure it was done correctly, ie expensively.

Plus, not having the basement would eventually drive me mad.

But it is lovely

PippiLongBottom · 02/01/2012 19:16

What a fascinating thread. I have befn studying the time period when the house was built in my English Lit degree and although it sounds beautifully romantic from our perspective, realistically it is surely nothing but a pipe dream.

partridge · 02/01/2012 20:01

Thanks Grendel for buying into the dream! Why a pipe dream Pippi? I will go and see it later this week and report back, but I guess it is the kind of restoration project that would take a lifetime - I would not be restoring any papier mache any time soon.

Anyone still interested - have a look at this:

edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?referral=other&pnum=6&refresh=t02Z9J1iB1g3&EID=9e238002-5f3e-4324-b045-3fd0db9ad410&skip=&p=6

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flatbread · 02/01/2012 20:09

Partridge, I can so understand how you feel. If you fall in love with it, then maybe you need to follow your heart :).

When we first moved to Scotland, we rented in Regent Terrace and I fell in love with the city, the skyline view from regent terrace, the genteel living and especially the broughton street area. Then we moved even closer to Broughton street and I enjoyed popping out for coffee, cakes and crombies. But then one day I woke up and hated it all. The litter, the stark greyness, lack of trees on the street and the unyielding urban living of it all.

Since we were renting, it was easy to move out and get back to greener, more gentle living.

But I think you know what suits you and if you absolutely love it, go for it or you might have lifelong regrets:). But if it was me, I would happily take on a big mortgage for a place i love on regent terrace, but defo not for east London street or hillside or the other upcoming urban 'ghettos'

partridge · 02/01/2012 20:39

We wouldn't take out a big mortgage - we would have to sell well but there could be no unforseens.

Do you mind me asking where you moved to flatbread? I wouldn't call Gayfield Square and Windsor Street urban 'ghettos', although I can understand why you might say that about East London Street. I live in the West End - do you really think it is that different to there?

Don't you think in Edinburgh we are quite precious about location? I mean, Broughton Street, Gayfield Square, Hart Street etc are just literally round the corner...

I think where we live is definitely the head decision - I love the location and I suppose I do have to think beyond primary school - we are dead close to The Academy/Stuarts Melville etc here, whereas not so much there... Sorry if you are still following this stream of consciousness - I am sure I couldn't persuade my husband anyway.

Having just had my 3rd boy I think I am fantasising about space, space, space. This is nearly 4,000 square feet whereas we are just under 2.5. I know that is plenty in the real world, but it would make life so much easier to have lots of running around/coat and welly boot space...

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flatbread · 02/01/2012 21:07

Partridge,

We almost bought a place in Eglington terrace, but were outbid and bought a place near my DH's work in West Lothian instead. It is a short-term solution and in hindsight a good move as I would have so fallen out of love with the gorgeous but unsuitable flat within a few months.

I am waiting for a 1930s bungalow in Priestfield, overlooking the golf course and Holyrood park. Nothing available, but something I love will come up eventually. We have no current mortgage so will be able to move quickly once we find the place we like.

For me, I realize now that it is really important to have beautiful views and a calm, quiet street to step out on. I can deal and thrive on city noises, but only if they are not right on my doorstep.

Our thinking is a bit different than yours, in that we are not looking for a forever place. We already have one completely unsuitable, money-draining white elephant in the Continent, which will eventually be our forever home. Now our property purchases are based on (a) not streching ourselves financially (b) decent investments that will give at least a positive roi when we move and need to rent out/sell.

soverylucky · 02/01/2012 21:13

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pannacotta · 02/01/2012 21:18

I think Grendel's post is really helpful, she has looked carefully at the floorplan and how this translates to how you would use the house, most of us have just responded to its wow factor and grandeur rather than looking at its practicality as a living space.

We bought a large, grand victorian house a few years ago, and I was thinking at the time that having the extra square metres would be great for my two small boys, and is some ways it is, such as them tearing up and down the long hall.

However, our floorplan is not dissimilar to this house and we do find that the separate rooms feel disjointed and not very family friendly and the relatively small kitchen is a pita. There is very little built in storage in these houses and all the period features (fireplaces/chimney breasts etc) mean that it is hard to create any, and if its listed you wouldnt be able to remove any of these features.
We are giving over a large bedroom to make a dressing/storage room as there is nowhere to store clothes in our bedroom (too many windows and a fireplace).

But I do think its worth looking at further, find out about the basement and likely renovation work and then you can make an informed decision.

partridge · 02/01/2012 21:19

Yes I think it has been around for a while (although that article is from August 2011). Obviously it is not everyone's cup of tea, I think we have established that now. Wink

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soverylucky · 02/01/2012 21:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soverylucky · 02/01/2012 21:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

partridge · 02/01/2012 22:08

Sorry, it is... Great link btw. Thought you were talking about my two links.

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Driftwood999 · 03/01/2012 19:55

There is a very funny film called The Money Pit....

partridge · 05/01/2012 18:46

I looked round it and it killed the dream. Very rabbit warreny and needed far too much cash. Lovely couple but I fear they have a beautiful albatross. I really hope they sell it to someone who loves it because it is an amazing historic house.

Thank you all v much for advice.

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OliviaMumsnet · 05/01/2012 22:19

ooh thanks for update partridge. best of luck Grin
Grin

ProfessorSunny · 06/01/2012 09:15

It is lovely, but it will cost a fortune to heat, with the age it is you will always been spending money on repairs and everybody will think you are loaded and expect everything else in your life to match the house.

GrendelsMum · 09/01/2012 22:17

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. If DH and I lived in Edinburgh and didn't already have a big restoration project on our hands, we would be right round looking at it - DH is very taken.

I'm surprised it feels rabbit warreny in real life as the layout doesn't look bad. Was that because it's got kitchens and bathrooms on both floors? I wonder if that would improve if you sorted out kitchens and bathrooms.

Particularly sad you didn't like it as I'd come up with an improved layout for you, with a big kitchen / diner and playroom in the lower ground floor...

partridge · 10/01/2012 07:05

Thanks grendels - you were a big help. I came home grateful at how well our flat flows... We have a big kitchen downstairs and are going to build a garden room with sliding or folding glass doors onto our large garden and a woodburner. Also a drawing room upstairs and much better location. We are nearly there with planning, whereas you wouldn't be able to knock through any walls at gayfield.

The first floor had a stunning drawing room but looking into offices right next door - you could practically see what was on their computer screen. And the first floor rooms all seemed to lead off each other. It was big without feeling spacious.

I wasn't daunted by work needed, but the lack of flow and slight feeling of being perched away from the garden were deal breakers. I don't want to diss this house though as anyone interested should definitely see it- it is beautiful. Just not for us.

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GrendelsMum · 10/01/2012 08:41

All for the best, then! The garden room sounds lovely - do you already have a supplier for the folding doors? We're having a new garden room built ourselves and our carpenter, who's also a friend, knows a high quality but good value supplier of folding doors.

partridge · 10/01/2012 22:05

Our architect suggested nordam. Always open to suggestions as budget is tight so I would love any recommendations! Thank you.

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partridge · 10/01/2012 22:07

Sorry... Nordan, not dam!

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partridge · 10/01/2012 22:08

Grendels, I might try and get the plans up here and you can critique!

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