Building Control Failed....anyone got an elica extractor fan?

[planestrainsautomobiles]

We've completed a few building projects before but this has been a disaster from start to finish, we've still got a leaking flat roof and a wet concrete floor (first attempt was condemned and pulled up!)

Anyhow, current issue is we failed building control today as our v. expensive (and poncey) elica extractor pendant fan isn't apparently adequate enough for our open plan kitchen.

I wasn't here at the time of the inspection, but looks like we'll now have to have an additional extractor above the wall units.

Has anyone been in this position before, I don't understand how a company can sell extractor fans that will fail building control ..... or am I missing the point?

Am no tech expert, but check it's an extractor and not a recirculating fan, as many Elica ones are (i.e. it just filters out the grease and then chucks air back in to the room, as opposed to taking it to the outside). Even if it's an extractor, for larger rooms you need more extraction and it may just not be strong enough. This is not Elica's fault, they can't know what size room you're going to have. If it's that fake chandelier design, that's definitely a recirculator (and actually you might as well not bother with one of those, as it won't remove smells. Or steam. Sorry).

Thanks Fresh, will speak to my builder tomorrow. Just really furious that he told me that we couldn't have a ducted extractor fan (due to position of beams) and so to get a recirculating fan. Now I'm told that it doesn't pass building control (and no doubt wants us to pay extra for an additional extractor fan)

How do other people get round this issue....it seems like they all have them in the housey magazines?

TIA

Yes, you do see a lot of them in the press, and it makes my teeth itch every time, as they might look flash but they don't actually do what you need an extractor to do...which is extract. Can you speak to Building Control to find out exactly what you do need (there is a value based on square footage of the room I think), so you go to your builder armed with facts? Good luck.

Thanks....the wonders of hindsight!

depending on the layout of your kitchen, you can have a duct which is concealed on top of the wall units, or runs along inside them, or (occasionaly) runs between the joists of the upstairs floor. If there is a disused chimney you can use that, but you must have a liner, or condensation and grease will soak through the brickwork. It is obviously far easier to have the cooker on an outside wall so you just need to make a hole in it and vent through there. If you have a high ceiling you can have a rectangular duct and run it in the angle where the ceiling meets the wall. They are mostly UPVC so can be painted however you want, or hidden behind (very big) coving or a plate-shelf.

IIRC BRs just say you need to have mechanical ventilation, it need not be a hood, so a non-trendy ventaxia or similar, up high, on an outside wall, will do the trick. Your builder can make a neat round hole through the brickwork with a core drill. The larger fans can have a controller to change the speed and even make them blow or suck.

Steam rises so they need to be as high as you can.

Recirculating hoods are entirely useless, except as ornaments. I despair that people buy them.

p.s. I recently had a kitchen fitted, I wanted a 1000mm hood (no chimney) but they appear to be unobtainable now. The builder sourced a Concorde 90 stainless which I expect is nowhere near as flash as yours, but the Elica catalogue has some useful info on sizing and ducting (last few pages of the "wall mounted) catalogue. I had mine boxed into the wall units with a duct hidden on top of them.

See links
www.tlc-direct.co.uk/perl/search.pl?search=elica+hood&button=Search

www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Elica2/Elica_2007.pdf

some of their designer models make me giggle

found this link for you. Look at example C5 for a cooker hood. 30 litres per second is 108 m³/hour which is well within the power of a hood. I believe the extract rate is required to be double if it is not adjacent to the hob, which will need a fairly powerful extractor fan.

www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADF_2010.pdf

We failed building control because a window, supplied by the builder, didn't meet fire regs. Our builder helpfully then denied all responsibility (we should have spotted it apparently, he didn't know anything about the regs ) so we ended up paying for another builder to replace the window. Building control were totally inflexible, and we didn't want to argue too much in case they inspected again and found more problems

I'm a BCO. You need 60 litres/second in kitchen, or 30l/s if over hob. Hth.

I failed building control on an escape window because they changed the regs between granting planning and construction
and the man wanted fire doors right through the house even though they could be left open
I told him to && off and that I'd wait for the regs to change again

the UKs building code is a joke its all about petty stuff
but does not require proper insulation or energy efficiency - our inspectors never noticed the lack of sound or thermal insulation. Pratt.

Thanks for all the responses. Builders have agreed to foot the bill for an additional extractor fan and installation (apparently it will be hidden by the wall units)......so can't grumble too much.

I still wonder how other people get them through building control, but I guess they must install them into an existing kitchen, i.e. no extension, etc.

I guess I should be grateful that everything else was approved, they have been very hit and MISS!

TalkinPeace2 agree about building regs, at the end of the day if I think its a big smelly or steamy I'll open a window!

if you have a 60l/sec extractor fan, that's over 200m³/hour, which I bet is more than will drift out of a window.

Talkingpeace - that should not happen, we only apply the regs in force at the time the approval was issued. This could be up to 3 yrs old.

smarty
I have it in writing
the fire door regs changed as well

that's interesting

what were the two dates?

permission was late 2007
completion was late 2008

Talking Peace

"Planning" and "Building Regulations Approval" are two different things.

the drawings we were given planning permission for were rejected by building control as they said the windows did not comply with approved document b on the day, but agreed that they had when permission was granted

loft room escape window at the rear of the house (2 x 9 foot drops to garden) not permitted. have to have escape window to front (25 foot drop to concrete)
no explanation for change
like the change from door closers to fire doors (that can be left open so are not fire doors as per the definition in the glossary)