Close to exchange but considering pulling out (we are buying). WWYD? Urgent advice needed please!

[Gincognito]

We just got the last of the detailed reports recommended by our home purchase survey. The quote for drainage is just over £7000 (!) which brings the total to over £11,000.

We haven't had quotes for some repointing and a small amount of work on the roof - I estimate a few hundred and we were happy with this as the property is early 1900s. We also haven't had anyone look at the boiler/central heating which is obviously a mistake as there are likely to be issues here, too.

We just don't have this kind of money - we were prepared to spend 2-3k but we also need new furniture. We have virtually nothing.

The last quote only came in yesterday evening so I haven't been able to speak to the estate agent yet. What should I do? How much is reasonable to expect them to pay? I feel terribly guilty already about spoiling their Christmas (they had been hoping to exchange before) and the estate agent is putting a lot of pressure on me, ringing a couple of times every day. Luckily our solicitor is a proper dragon and has no problem telling theirs exactly where to go when they send 'outraged' emails asking why we're not ready.

What should we do? Try to negotiate on the quotes we already have? Insist on getting someone in to look at the CH/boiler too? Pull out and look for another house, writing off the £1500 we've already spent?

For info, we are FTB and they are keen to move. But they must have their own budget issues too, with a young family. I'm trying hard to be dispassionate but it's not naturally my style so I do worry about them. But obviously about my own dh and ds more. I don't want us to own a house we can't afford to furnish!

Gosh, that was an essay! Thanks for getting this far.

Assuming that the drainage and other issues that add up to the £11k are essential rather than cosmetic, I'd show them / their solicitor a copy of the drainage report and explain that you need to drop the price to reflect the amount of work that needs doing.

Given that you've already got a lot to spend and not much of a budget, I'd also speak to them about getting the heating checked. Have they got proof of annual services?

You have the rest of your life to do the work - surely it doesn't need to be all done as soon as you move in?
Are these compulsory 'reports' for your mortgage or 'quotations' for things you would 'like' to do?
If it's for your mortgage and the bank won't let you borrow the full amount without getting the work done, then by all means go back and negotiate with the vendor for at least half of everything.
If it's for improvements/repairs you would 'like' to do, then you've already had your chance to negotiate with the vendor when you agreed to buy the house and when you had your survey done - if you didn't renegotiate at that point - why not?
Why should the vendor be expected to fund any of the changes you want to make simply because you didn't realise the expense involved?
Have you just got cold feet?

What bumpy beaky says- also assuming you are renting as ftb (so no chain) and given state of market , I don't think they will be that reluctant to do a deal. Ignore the estate agent - they are arcing on their own interest not yours. Even if you had a bigger budget it's perfectly reasonable to make the requests in theses repair issues as they sound material (it's not like you are price chipping as dont like wallpaper)

Greentown, I read this as reports recommended by the survey. Ginquito is just doing what you suggested, looking at her survey and considering whether the price is fair.

The specialist reports are designed to find problems, to protect you. It doesn't mean you can't live there more or less happily for a while despite these issues. It probably does mean you need to spend money on dull stuff rather than repainting in your own style straightaway. I'd ask the specialists what timescale they recommend for getting the work done. That should help you work out what you need to ask your sellers to cut their price by.

I'd second bumpybecky - show it all to the seller, regardless of when it needs to be done. Shows you are being fair and honest, which will help with any price negotiations. And it sounds like you trust your solicitor too - what does she say?

This is not an atypical reaction for a first time buyer to be honest. Old houses always need money spending on them. Can you ask anyone if you would get not dissimilar reports for any other house you put an offer in on?

also if your survey has found these issues, if you pull out and someone else tries to buy it, the issues are still there, the next buyer's survey will find the problems too

if you're being honest and fair (and they are genuine problems rather than decoration) then you're in a strong position to negotiate, assuming the vendors are reasonable people of course (which might be a very big assumption)

good luck :)

It would be good for the OP to clarify whether her mortgage company has insisted on these reports or whether they were the standard back-covering recommendations of the surveyor.
I find it very difficult to visualise a drainage problem requiring £7000! worth of repairs which wouldn't be pretty evident when inspecting the house - if it wasn't apparent, then defintely negotiate with the vendor.
The OP is buying an old house and the CH system will not be new - if you commission a report saying it's old and needs replacing (unless your mortgage company insists) then that's your problem/choice - you're not buying a 'new' house - it's all old, it's all ageing.
Try not to find extra problems, the boiler may be old and it may still have another 20 old years left in it - you will never renovate an old house to the condition of a new one and buying a house is not risk-free.

There's a set of houses near us that has a huge drainage problem (pine needles blocking drains and roots grown through) but it's only obvious when it's been raining for a few days.

Somewhere downstream of us there's a snaggy bit of the sewage pipe which occasionally gets clogged and then needs rodding. It's been done maybe 3 times in 10 years. Our vendors didn't mention it to us and they knew there was an issue as the drains had been rodded before so many times that Mr Next Door bought a set of rods! :(

Both these issues would be very expensive to fix as would involve digging up multiple gardens and / or roads. Neither is that urgent or obvious all the time.

Gin, how urgent are your drainage problems

Surveys are basically arse covering exercises unless the mortgage co refuses the £ based on the findings and having them rectified. Everything always sounds dreadful.Are the bank saying they won't lend based on it? I doubt it is as urgent as it sounds. Get your solicitor to approach theirs but tbh all houses need something doing and if you really can't afford the general upkeep I think you should perhaps look for something cheaper and easier for a first buy

Exactly - sometimes these things are telling you that you're cutting your budget too fine. If you can't afford it now, you might still be in the same boat in a year - or you might be better off - only you know.
Don't think any bank would expect you to pay to fix everybody elses drains though - so still puzzled on £7k.

Did your mortgage company do their own valuation and did the take into consideration the problems you are concerned about? When we bought our house the mortgage company valued our house at 10 grand less than what it was on the market for, given that the whole place needed rewiring and most of the windows were rotten and needed replacing, and the damp proof course needed replacing. So we reduced our offer accordingly so we could afford to do the work that was needed (as recommended by the mortgage company as part of their mortgage offer)

Mind you, we didn't agree the sale until we had had all that information in from everyone? How come its got as far as exchange but are still getting quotes in?

Basically though, you just have to be honest with the vendor and say you have discovered all these costly problems and you can't afford to buy at the original price if you have to cover the cost of the repairs. I would tell them what the total cost of the repairs are, send copies of quotes and then it's their call as to what they are prepared to reduce the cost by or whether they want to tell you to get lost. If you can't afford the repairs PlUS the original price agreed then ur not in a position to buy it. Don't feel bad about it, that's life. Don't put yourself in financial trouble just because you feel sorry for the vendor.

Hello all, thanks for your replies. We are FTB as I said and have been utterly clueless. Although a dragon our solicitor has not been great at explaining things so apologies if things I've said above sound strange - I'm still very ignorant.

The mortgage company initially said they would retain 1k until damp issues sorted, but would then lend the full amount.

We then had detailed buyers report, which I agree does pick up on everything. As I said, there was some minor cosmetic work on the door arch and pointing that we disregarded.

The existing DPC was still under guarantee so the original company came out. They found that the wrong type of plaster had been used in one room, invalidating the guarantee and specified the work that needs to happen to rectify this. This work alone (just under a grand) wouldn't have put us off

Another job is the electrics. No money being retained here, but we have been told by the electrician that not completing the work indicated by the testing within 12 months would invalidate our buildings insurance. I'd be happy to hear this isn't true! This comes to just over 2k.

And then the drainage issue - again indicated in the surveyor's report although not by the mortgage company. We paid for a camera inspection, and as it turned out we paid for the pipes to be cleaned, too as they were too clogged up to be visible otherwise.

The report found many displaced joints (several severely so), lots of radial cracking, several pipes needing re-lining, collapsed rain water pipework and a severely displaced joint on the saddle to the main sewer which the contractor believes will require the excavation of the main road if it continues much longer.

As an ignorant first timer, it would be useful to hear whether the problems quoted for are to be expected in a property of this age? Are they obvious enough that we only have ourselves to blame for not seeing them? Are the problems purely cosmetic? Is the drainage guy trying to rip us off?

As to how we have got so close to exchange...the other side have been pushing very strongly for this. The vendors want to move asap and the cynic in me says the EA has an eye on his Xmas bonus. We've been feeling our way, perhaps not with the best advice. The company that did the drainage report went AWOL for 2 weeks and if we hadn't already paid them I would have given up.

The boiler - we are aware that it is old and will need replacing at some point - not a problem, we reflected this in our offer. I guess I'm now just worried about whether there's a hidden issue with that, too.

We haven't got cold feet, we're just at all the figures floating round. We've not exchanged, and we have not agreed a date to do so, despite the pressure. In the spirit of MN, AIBU? :o

P.S. £10k not £11. Can't count.

If the work required excavation of the main road then that wouldnt be you paying for it all would it? I thought that you were only responsible up to the boundary of your propery?

The last three flats/houses I've owned were built in 1892, 1907 and 1910. I have never had electricians in, anyone to look at the drainage, worried about the boiler or anything else. And the places haven't ever fallen down and I lived in the last two places for over ten years each. I suspect that if you pay for really detailed surveys on old properties, this is exactly the kind of issue surveyors will come up with because that's what they do.

Unless it's a total fixer-upper and you can't get the mortgage, I tend to ignore any issues.

If you want a problem-free home, buy a new build.

This is the kind of thing I don't know :(

Have you spoken on the phone to the surveyor or just seen the written report? An off the record chat can be useful. Ask something like "Is this the kind of thing you expect to see in a property of this age? Or are these significant concerns which require urgent work?".

I would disregard the electrical testing thing, tbh. People do not, afaik, get their electrics routinely tested and I've never seen this on an insurance quote. When I sold my last house (built 1897) the vendor had everything tested. All the testers seemed to delight in finding "fault" - consumer unit was "illegal",etc. It was just older. As I said, people do not change these things unless having other works done/it breaks or an awful lot of people must have "invalid" buildings insurance.

I have also never heard of elecrical testing being part of a buildings insurance quote.

Some excellent advice here. We pulled out of a house purchase a few years ago (on Christmas Eve - thanks to my extremely over -cautious husband) because the reports recommended by the survey indicated about £15k worth of work that needed doing. It was a Victorian house and I thought then, and do now, that you're never going to find a place of that age which needs nothing doing to it. In your case, it really is about affordability - if the work needs doing relatively soon and you won't have the cash, then you do need to think seriously about going ahead.

We're about to go through the same process, except this time with a house dating from 1630 . I dread to think what my husband's reaction will be if there's so much as a cm of damp found in the structural survey!

The regs for electrics in a home change every couple of years, tops. So the electrics in the house you are looking at buying is going to be extremely outdated. I have never ever (and I am a mortgage consultant) heard of buildings insurance becoming invalid because of electrics, unless there is a specific fault that has been picked up that needs fixing. In the future you may decide to have a re-wire, but that would be your decision and when you know you can afford it.

In relation to drains, it should not cost you anywhere near 7k. The regs have just changed on that too, and you are only liable for pipes inside your property boundary.

*"What shall I do if there is a blocked or defective sewer?

From the 1 October 2011 responsibility for the clearance of blockages in and repairs to most drains outside your property boundary (lateral drains) and most sewers will normally be the responsibility of United Utilities.

If you think you have a problem on a lateral drain or sewer, you should report it online to United Utilities or by telephoning 0845 746 2200.

If you are not sure who is responsible please go to the following link on the United Utilities website which has some useful information that may help confirm the situation. Alternatively, we may be able to discuss the matter to offer clarification and in unusual cases we may carry out a site investigation. Please contact us by telephoning 0161 342 8355.

If you live in rented accommodation and have a drainage problem, contact your landlord or Housing Association.

If your problem relates to a drainage issue on a neighbouring property that is not being dealt with, officers of the Council may be able to investigate and refer the matter to the appropriate agency or take enforcement action where appropriate

Pipes and equipment that will not be the responsibility of United Utilities or the Local Authority include:-
Water supply pipes within your property boundary.
Existing surface water sewers that do not drain to a public sewer.
Privately owned sewage treatment works and pipes connected to them.
Privately owned septic tanks and cesspits.

However, if you experience a problem with any of these, we may be able to offer advice or help"*

I hope this helps.

It's also possible to take out insurance at quite a low monthly cost which covers all work to pipes/heating system/sewers etc which will cover the cost of any collapse/blockage or heating disaster.

For example, the British Gas Home Care scheme can covers all internal pipework as well as all boiler services and repairs. Southern Water do a similar scheme for heating, plumbing and sewers. Do a bit of a search around.

Some water/sewage problems can also be covered under your home insurance policy.

And if you end up with a blocked drain, either buy some rods and rod it yourself, or employ a company to come and sort it out.

I have recently had a knackered drain and a company came with a mole device - they dug an entrance hole and an exit and then send down a machine to tunnel through and followed that with a new pipe. It didn't mean excavating the entire drive and the total cost was way less than you have been quoted - and you're only responsible up until the property boundry too.

It sounds as though the drains are as you'd expect - and at least you now know they're clean and currently working.

Don't panic when you get reports like that - the company you've employed is looking for trouble and reporting back accordingly. It's what you've asked them to do.

The next step is to take a balanced view on what is likely to actually cause a problem - it sounds as though both the drains and electrics have been working with no problems for years and the balance of probabilities points towards them continuing to do so for some time to come.

I certainly wouldn't pull out of a house purchase because of those reports.

Oh gawd, you are not buying a property in Hampshire are you?

Whilst you can take out water pipe insurance surely this would not cover you against existing faults? Well not if they can prove that you knew about them anyway?

Electrics - whilst you could ignore their diagnosis (and its always worth getting a 2nd and 3rd opinion in case the 1st is overcautious) - ignoring dodgy electrics could end in a house fire, so again maybe worth doing.

OP:
If you can face having the work done and really want the property then I'd suggest you go back to the EA and ask for the vendors paperwork on the boiler - not just the safety check sheet, but the summary sheet that says what the engineer said may be an issue in the future etc. If they can't provide this then ask that they get the safety check done and then show it to you.

I'd then show them your reports with the price of the work that needs to be done, if the boiler looks dodgy add on another £3.5K (by the time you've changed the boiler, pump, had system powerflushed and any radiators changed etc etc it'll easily be this) and negotiate a £13.5K discount.

Tes, no we're not, you can relax!