New or Old? Near or Far? This or That?

[Spirael]

Ok, I'm completely torn between these two options so I could use help from the MN peanut gallery to help me decide or mention stuff I've not thought about that might sway the decision!

The background: We currently have a traditional 3 bed semi with 1 bathroom and would like to move into something bigger so we can have more DC! We could afford either of the two properties listed (once we sell our current home for the deposit) and have comfortable leeway in mortgage amount.

Option 1

Advantages: It's near where we live currently, so we know the area well and wouldn't need to move dentist/doctors/nursery/etc. It's also only a few miles from where DH and I work (in opposite directions). The lounge/kitchen/dining room are relatively big.

Disadvantages: We need to sell our house first (not looking hopeful - no interest at all in nearly 6 months), it's still only got 1 bathroom (but does have a downstairs WC), the garden faces North. It's an older house so will need some DIY and maintainance. We'd be part of a quiet side road, but next to a busy main road.

Option 2

Advantages: They'd part exchange our house so we can move this century next year. We get a lot more house for our money - 3.5 bathrooms! It's a new build with all the shiny warranties and stuff. We'd be in a really quiet estate, surrounded by an old golf course. We'd be more local to friends. My DH would walk over the road to work-!! South West facing garden.

Disadvantages: The lounge/kitchen are relatively small. My commute would double (not disasterously - to about 40 mins). We'd have to move doctors/nursery/etc, a blow as we adore DD's nursery! No garage. Living on a building site for the next few years. Moving into a different city, just, which is likely to cause a slight increase in our insurance costs.

For the demographics of the area, the first option is sandwiched between two (rather dubious) council estates. The second option is in the middle of a heavily mixed ethnicity area - so schools and such would be about a 50/50 split. DD isn't at school age yet, but would be starting in about 3 years. Both have good access to local shops/stations/buses.

Another thing to consider is that we're planning on emigrating (when they finally process our application...) which is likely to be in about 5 years. So we'd need to sell again at that time. So which house is potentially easier to re-sell is also a consideration!

Any words of wisdom?? I keep swinging back and forth!

they are both nice! i would posibly lean more to the first for the practical reasons of staying in same area, especially if you are going to move again in a few years it would be nice not to have to uproot to a new area twice? also the thing i would be unsure of with the 2nd one is having some bedrooms on different floors, as with young dc its good to have them all sleeping on the same level with you, and it sounds like your dc are young so would that be a worry for you?

Personally I would go with option 1. We are doing exactly the same as you next year and I'd rather have the extra room than the spangly new bits and I would hate living on a building site.

Plus you say a 40 minute commute is not bad, but trust me after a while it gets you down.

Have you got an offer on your own place now? if not, I would avoid getting too excited about any potential purchase. Chances are it will get sold before you are ready to offer on it, unless you are in an extremely desirable location and are prepared to accept a pretty low offer.

Sorry, I know this is not particularly positive - don't want to rain on your parade.

Property one for me but what about holding on to the current house as long as possible, selling and renting till you are ready to emigrate?
I had 4dc in a small 3bed semi. have to say I was glad to move! you have two house sales in front of you. Big stress.

Ooh, I don't like number 2, it has no back door and no windows on the back - really weird! And I agree with Firawla about bedrooms on different floors. I can see the attraction of the part-exchange but is this actually the best thing about it?

Option 1 looks absolutely fine and suitable for what you want for the next few years.

If you put your house up, we can all have a good gawp make helpful suggestions to try to get you a buyer.

Sounds like sticking it out and waiting for option 1 seems to be the winner, then. :) Thanks for all the input, it's helped me a lot!

Firawla the different floors thing doesn't worry me too much, but I think that's because my parents had a house on three floors so I was on a different floor to them for my whole childhood. Staying in the same area though is a definite bonus.

Gonzo you're right about the building site. I though the development was nearly finished so building work would only be going on until the end of next year, but in actuality they've only done about a quarter so far!

Primafacie, we've not got any interest in our current house at all. But on the plus side the house we want to buy also has no interest (aside from us) and has been on the market for a year longer!

I'm almost positive we're not overpriced, we're undercutting by quite a lot comparable houses in the area and we have additional things like a conservatory. The problem is that there just seem to be no buyers around at the moment. Everyone is looking to buy in a few years rather than now, once the market is more stable.

7to25, the problem we have is that all family on both sides live in excess of 100 miles away, so have a steady stream of visitors staying overnight. So the second bedroom has to stay as a double bed and can't become and child's room, while the third bedroom can only just fit a single bed in it so no chance of doubling up! We also can't fit anything bigger than a moses basket in our room, so we could have another child but will be in trouble once they get too big for the moses basket.

Auntiestablishment, option 2 is semi-detached, the back is attached to two other houses. (The picture lies!)

I'll post a link to the house we're trying to sell as a separate message, so I can get MNHQ to remove it easier later on if necessary. :) [paranoid]

If you are planning on moving in 5 years I would stay put. It sounds as if you could manage in the space you have. I definitely wouldn't go for option 1, renovating a property that you don't intend to stay in will be costly and time consuming.

Ok, the house we're trying to sell is here.

Before you all judge too much, I'm currently working my way around the rooms clearing the junk and juggling furniture to improve them. I just submitted this picture to replace the one of the second bedroom, now that we've removed the junk library we had in there. (The EA might come and retake the picture, but at least it gives you an idea of the improved layout/decluttering.)

Next room getting attacked is the master bedroom - the chest of drawers in front of the radiator is going to go, as is the bookcase. And after that, I intend to tackle the lounge and lose that book case in the corner. There's also a nicer painting up now behind the fireplace than the random map - though to be honest I might take all the pictures down for the replacement photo.

After that, hopefully DD will be big enough then that I can remove the desk/changing table out of the nursery and switch the cot for a toddler bed, which should open up that room a little bit.

If all of that still gets us nothing, then DH and I are currently counting the pennies to try and do something about the kitchen/diner. It's all one room with a daft island in the middle, and if it were properly ripped out and replaced (losing that awful gas fire) then it would be pretty massive. But that's obviously £££ we don't really want to spend!!

The hedge/fence between us and the attached house is their responsibility, but our lovely neighbour is currently replacing it with a nice new fence. In spring, once he's finished and the rose bushes look less dead, then I'll retake the picture from the front of the house.

Any other ideas/suggestions? :) Preferably that don't cost much-! Money is tight at present, since a lot of what we have is tied up in the mortgage and what excess we have we need in order to move!

spugglers, when I say option 1 (1980's) needs some DIY I mean it's a bit more than the under warranty new build. But significantly less than staying put in the 1935 house we live in currently!

Staying put with a second child isn't really an option unless we shunt DD to the second bedroom and then persuade our ageing parents to sleep on an inflatable bed in the lounge. Or we lose our marital bed to guests every other weekend so we can sleep in the lounge instead...

Since you're not likely to sell yours immediately, and the part exchange option doesn't sound ideal either, I reckon I'd spend a bit of time and money getting the current house ready to sell, then see what is available when you have an offer.

Take it off the market until Feb/March, and use the time to really spruce up what you've got.

Your house looks tiny in the photos, because of the way that you have little pieces of furniture squeezed in to random locations, obviously due to a lack of space. Your replacement photo looks so much better in the bedroom.

Try to neutralise the decor a bit, remove as much furniture as possible for the photos, smarten up the front and have a photo taken on a sunny day. The photo of the bed squashed up next to the fitted wardrobes is essential to change! Your kitchen looks small and unfitted, really think about how you can improve this without spending too much, and get new photos if it is big as you say above. It looks unfitted, with no worktop on the row of white goods. The conservatory needs a bigger table.

Your garden looks fab, try to make the rest of the house live up to it!

Then get great new photos taken (it is the photos that will get you viewings), and hopefully you'll have an offer soon while you go and what is currently on the market.

Back-to-back semi - weird.

Your house looks nice, am surprised that you haven't had any interest - really must be slow.

Photo 4, though (the diner half of kitchen diner) doesn't. Can you put something nice on the bare mantlepiece, put a picture above it, straighten the wonky pictures on the back wall (pet hate of mine) and then bring the table into the middle of the room, lay it properly (covered with a nice tablecloth because it's a bit grotty not the most beautiful table ever) & make it all look inviting. And even better, do this AND the orange radiator!

I think you have the same dining chairs as me.

that should be and hide the orange radiator (behind the tablecloth!)

So Option 1, which has 4 double beds, nicer and bigger kitchen, lounge, bath and garden than yours, has been for sale for a year longer than yours in broadly the same price range (160k vs 125k) and is not attracting any interest? Crikey. This, to me, suggests you will have to lower your price significantly to sell yours. Most buyers who can afford your house will also be able to afford the other - the mortage repayment difference is going to be about £2000 a year - less if interest only. That is a lot more house for that price difference.

Are you comparing your price with sold prices or with asking prices in your area? Sold prices on your street on rightmove here seem to be quite a bit lower than your asking price, and the trend suggests prices have come down further in recent months. And because there are less buyers, the stock of unsold houses is increasing so what few buyers are out there can afford to be picky.

Well done on decluttering and making your place look as attractive as possible, I don't have specific advice to offer but clearly you are on the right track. Fingers crossed for you!

Thanks for the feedback. :) Yep, that photo of the bed against the wardrobe has been annoying me since the EA took it. It doesn't do that room justice at all, as it is a double bedroom and we only decorated it the other year!

In the defence of the 'orange' radiator, it's the exact same colour as the skirting boards which are the exact same colour as the red tile and the curtains. So it does all tie together. However I can see how it appears glaring, I do have a tablecloth I can probably utilise with the table.

Would it be better to leave the table in front of the radiator and cover it though, or move the table in front of the ugly gas fire and cover that instead..?

I also hate hate hate the fact that you can see the EA's reflection in the pictures in the background in the kitchen. It just seems sloppy to me! Same with the flash glare in the bathroom. So yeah, getting the pictures redone sounds appealing to me!

We did actually have something on the mantelpiece, Auntiestablishment. The EA made us remove it... They want everything empty bare as possible.

You think we're overpriced, Primafacie? By how much? Though to be honest if we are overpriced then we're royally screwed. If we were only a little bit over, surely we'd have had some interest and people making (what we consider) ridiculously low offers?

Since we've not had any interest at all, if the price is the problem then we must be ridiculously overpriced...which means we can't afford to move. We expect an offer lower than what we're listed at and have leeway for that, but there is a limit before we haven't got the deposit to move!

There are lots of terraced and/or council houses in our area, so that might skew the price of the postcode a bit. The comparable houses on the street (which don't have conservatories or lovely gardens!) are listed at £140k. Though admittedly they've not sold, I thought we were undercutting them quite substantially!

I can't really believe that £125k and £160k can be considered the same price range... For a start ours is (deliberately) clocking in beneath the stamp duty levels, and getting the bigger house is quite a significant stretch for our finances!

[wibbles]

Talk to a couple of new agents about the price, ask them to be really honest with you about what they realistically think it will sell for, not what it should be on the market for, so you get more of an overview. You don't necessarily need to change agents (although it's an option), but you will feel like you have up to date info.

I really think that the photos being as great as they can be makes all the difference. Most people put their search criteria into Rightmove or whatever, then scan their way down the list looking for a photo that jumps out at them, then they read the initial blurb, then they click in further and look at floorplans, read room sizes, etc. So your initial photos are so important, just to get people reading the rest of your info. Make the front of your house as appealing as possible, for this reason, then work on the rest of the photos. You don't need to rely on your estate agent to take them, if you're not happy with the standard of their photography.

Good luck!

Spirael, I am sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. I think anyone listing their house at £160k knows that they will need to accept below £150k because of stamp duty, so the asking price is deliberately inflated in that sense. That is what we were advised to do by EAs (though at a different threshold).

I agree there is a significant relative difference between £125k and £160k (i.e. the latter is 28% more money) but in absolute terms it does not represent a massive difference in mortgage repayment - maybe a couple hundred pounds a month (if that) so within the ability of many borrowers, unless they are stretching themselves to the gills, which of course no one should be doing in the current economic climate.

I may well be wrong about the sold prices in your area - I don't know a thing about your neighbourhood so don't take my word for it. But I would definitely caution against looking at asking prices, especially if houses are not selling. If you price your house at the right market value, it will sell, so there really is no getting around the fact that if it is not selling, that is because you are asking a price for it that no one in the current market is prepared to pay. It is an asset that is only worth as much as people will pay for it.

Also, a lot of people feel embarrassed about making cheeky offers - if they think you are asking too much, and are being unrealistic about your house's value, they may decide there is no point in making an offer as you are bound to refuse it.

The price trends in your area is for prices to go down, not up - so if your house was worth £125k when it first came on the market, it may only be worth £120k now, and this trend looks set to continue for a long time according to the most recent market research. I know this massively stinks, but if you can find a way to wait it out, the market will eventually pick up. In the meantime improving your current house may be the better solution.

Is there any way you can make your house work with more kids? For what it's worth we survived with two kids in a two bed flat (though I will be glad to move out!). The baby slept in the living room and until we found a new house, the plan was to move him to share a room with his big sister until they were teens! There are bunk beds that can accommodate a baby and a bigger toddler.

(Gosh that is long and gloomy, sorry! )

But the stamp duty threshold is only at £150k in "disadvantaged areas" - otherwise they're £125k and £250k I think. OP, are you in a "disadvantaged area" for Stamp Duty? If not, the £150k thing won't be an issue and being on at £125k just means you won't get more than £120k for it.

Re mantlepiece - your estate agent is clearly not up with the latest trends like I am such an expert as all the swanky new houses have "stuff" on every surface. Stuff arranged to look posh, but still stuff not bare.

Hi all, thanks again for all the information. :) We're not in a disadvantaged area, as far as I know, so the below stamp duty rate is £125k (£150k for first time buyers). We are expecting offers in the ball park of £120k and could afford that.

Looking at the Rightmove link for the previous sales in the street, the lowest price house listed was a 'do-up' when it was bought - no garage at the time and complete gutting required. It's one of the ones now relisted for £140k. The other two are very similar to ours, but the kitchens are smaller, neither have conservatories and the more expensive one has no garage either. The cheaper one I think was a reposession that needed extensive refurbishment.

Over the weekend I emailed the EA the new picture and asked about coming off the market until Spring, but haven't had any response yet. I'm beginning to think that our EA actually isn't doing us any favours. Which is unfortunate, as he's a family friend.

If we removed and relisted, would that reset the time constraint on engaging multiple EAs? Would it be worth calling in a bigger EA and list on both? Or would it be better to stop with our current EA and relist with a new EA in spring?

Are you tied in to a contract with your current agent? How long remains?

If you don't think your current agent is doing a great job, then swap to a different one. You will have to pay higher fees if you use multiple agents, so if you can use just one, so much the better.

I really think with not much work or expenditure you could transform your house, and that it would be better to come off the market for a short while, then re-launch as though new to the market with a property that potential buyers felt like they hadn't seen before.