anyone done/considered a self-build?

[irregularegular]

What was your experience? Good idea, bad idea? Super stressful? Worth it in the end?

My dream has always been a period house. But the chances of finding something seem minimal, given that we don't want to move from this village, and already have a very nice house/garden, but just want something a bit bigger and better laid out (without spending more than about 20% more, at most)

So, there's a crummy little bungalow for sale on nice half-acre plot. It seems to me that the numbers just about add up for us to demolish this and rebuild something bigger. No, it wouldn't have period character, but it would have all the practical features and space we want, and I'm envisaging a beautiful Arts and Crafts design. Something like this, but smaller...

viewer.zmags.com/publication/6b04f069#/6b04f069/12

Would you?? Will it be more stress than it's worth? Would I still want a proper period house rather than a naff modern copy (is it naff?)

Is 450-500K a reasonable budget for a gorgeous, high quality house (3000 sq ft or maybe a bit less, high quality kitchen, fabulous wooden staircase, Arts and Crafts style wooden doors, windows etc). There's absolutely no point doing it if I just end up with a bog standard executive home!

If I was doing a new build I would go contemporary - do something for now rather than harking back to a bygone era. I think it's a wee bit naff - not hugely though - but I'm clearly a minority because plenty of people go done the repro route.

i woud love to do it (raving grand designs fan)

i have a fantasy about building a timber frame house out of recherche elements such as ebay stained glass (have a search on ebay - you can often find nice pieces of leaded glass unbid on) and big lumps of timber (to fulfill DHs wood fetish)

...there are forums dedicated to this - really your budget depends on how much your plot is going to cost - a half acre plot with crap house could actually suck most of that budget up in some areas.

although the lesson of addiction to grand designs - they always go over budget, over schedule, low on funds...and massively compromise on objectives.

Don't worry - I'm worried it's a wee bit naff too! I hate twee little period-style features grafted on to basically modern houses. But I just like traditional style houses to live in better than very modern houses, I think. Plus it probably suits the surroundings better. There is a very substantial Arts and Crafts style house being built now on the same road and it does look good. I think they can be fairly timeless? I suspect it does need to be done very well and very high quality to have a change of working.

I definitely have mixed feelings!

But my perfect period house to do up on a perfect plot in the right location that I can afford isn't going to happen.

Edgar - that's on top of the plot. Yes, the plot is all of that already! We're in an expensive area.

I know from looking at these forums/websites/magazines that that should be enough for a high quality house - but is it enough for a really, really, really nice house? I guess there is no limit once grand designs fantasies kick in!

I'm not sure, but I think it might not be enough for a really, really nice house - in laws are building their own Grand Design at the moment, and it's amazing how much it all adds up when you have to buy every single thing.

GrendelsMum - yes, i can imagine. What sort of thing are they building (and have you any idea how much it is costing them??)

it depends - there was a GD i really liked (a substation conversion to Moroccan Adobe) where they made good use of local artisans to make elements - getting really high quality and unique items for much less than a big name standard item cost..eg swirly glass brick window - £200 -

what sort of elements do you think would make it?

eg carved oak front door? (can be £10k just for the doors, never min building the doorway)
staircase?(easily 16k)

specialist pasterwork?

there was GD where someone built a large gothic house... i think it came in at 350k...but a couple f years ago and North of Watford.

Oh, it's gorgeous - absolutely stunning. I can't say too much, but it's a modern interpretation of an A & C house.

The things that make it are the details - all of the doors, the staircase, and so on.

If it helps, we're doing a restoration / renovation at the moment, and we pay our specialist restoration carpenter / builder £130 a day, which is outrageously good value.

linked

very nice.

so - how expensive are the tiles you want to use?
you can get second hand tiles but hey may cost more in building time as they won't be perfect/standard

windows - doing that style in double glazing = minty.
stone work - is that made of stone or special pale brick?

creating that look could be done with some compromise on ingredients - but no compromise on time!

if you can hire a projet manager could reduce on the stres front - lots of elements to bring together in that house (before you've thought of the interior)

my main body of knowledge comes from collecting building trade debt - one piece of advice is if your builder recommends another sub-contractor - take their advice. no end of bother comes from using subbies who they don't want to work with/ don't communicate with/ haven't found to be reliable/ simply don't like.

if a subbie doesn't like a job, don't push them to do it - quite often if they aren't happy doing it, it is likely to go wrong.

Edgar - I've absolutely no idea how much specialist items like tiles etc would cost! That's kind of what I would musing about - how good would it be with a reasonable (high, but not outrageous) budget?

Grendels - £130 is ridiculously cheap - whenever we get people in to do work here I always reckon on 200 a day.

Before you get carried away planning you're lovely house have you checked planning regulations?

Is the bungalow you're demolishing 3000 sq ft ?

450k will get you a very nice house if you know what you're doing. You have to have a very clear idea, be very dedicated and focused and be good at fire-fighting. Unless you can really keep on top of things, work out where to spend your money wisely and get used to being tough with tradespeople, it really might not go as far as it should. (To give examples, I have twice in the past year seen people who have spent more than #250k on extensions that don't add anything very much to their houses...).

How on earth did they manage to spend £250k on an extension and not add anything - what did they do - or not do...I'm intrigued and slightly scared - as am spending similar amounts on an extension.

RoyalBling

Don't worry, I would definitely be checking with planning before I took this anywhere (it's really just fantasyland at the moment).

So no, the bungalow is not 3000 sq ft by any means (it's a bit less than half that) but I've seen plenty of similar plots being built on with similar sized houses round here. One right next door to this one very recently for one.

In both cases they hired very ambitious architectural practices and basically got carried away. One did remodel the rest of the (very small, two-up, two-down) house as well but it was all very extravagant - copper cladding, really over-engineered, bespoke everything.

The other one was extremely complex structure on the back of a standard Edwardian house. Owner wanted something with wow factor, which she got to an extent but, actually, the structure didn't work with the rest of the house or even in terms of the space it added. Great for the architect's portfolio but absolutely useless for this family and in terms of investment.

In both cases, the owners would have been a lot better off financially and, especially the second one, in terms of design getting a talented builder to provide something. They were ridiculously over the top because they had been seduced by the idea of being some sort of architectural patron.

But I have also seen people waste loads of money employing builders with no design eye and getting the whole thing wrong as well - it's a hard balance .

at your budget; we've costed out our build at just under quite a bit less than half yours and still have to find at least £15k in savings to make it worthwhile

Mind you, by my standards it will still be a really, really, really nice house

also we're finding that construction costs are rapidly rising.. the windows quotations have gone up by 15% in less than 3 months. With housing market depressed and prices going up it's a hard time to build

Thanks for the insight Lala - it's hard not to get carried away at times with things to put in your house and it's been easier to spend £250k on our house than I ever felt possible.

i really want you to do it so i can live vicariously as you post on MN choosing materials etc...

oricella, you might not be at the resulting mortgage! But yes, obviously, we're lucky to be able to consider spending that amount of money.

I imagine that it's more economic in a way to spend a lot of money building a house in an expensive area, as I know the house would be worth that much afterwards. It just wouldn't make sense in some parts of the country. I know that labour etc is more expensive here, but probably not enough to wipe out the potential benefits.

We have quite a lot of equity in our house as we (or rather my H) was lucky enough to buy his first house in 1994, in an area that then went up rapidly.

Have you actually started building or are you still at the planning stage? Are you finding it harder than you expected? How big will it be?

If you want something a bit bigger/ better laid out and have a budget have you thought about inviting an architect around to look at what you could do with your current house?

Its amazing what a good architect can think of when coming cold to a situation.

I've done a few renovations. The latest one I took back to three walls (no floor - we dug down through rot to the earth and built up again, hardly any roof and one wall that had to be rebuilt). I wouldn't recommend living on site unless a significant part of the house can be closed off for domestic use.

The biggest thing with a renovation or build is not to underestimate the time you need to spend on site, during site working hours. You don't want to be paying a team of people at £150/ day when each time they hit a snag it takes a couple of hours for you to be able to communicate with them (a team of 8 standing around, having an extra tea break or going slow awaiting your contact would on this calculation be £150 an hour).

I've always felt it is worth it in the end, have always hit a low point thinking its not and generally have said this is the last time.

ANTagony

Yes - we actually already had one architect round for an informal consultation 1-2 years ago, when we were contemplating a renovation project. He came and looked at the potential project and also at our own house. It provides a benchmark that another house has to beat. The costs of moving obviously mean there are certain advantages to staying put!

If we stay where we are we probably will do some fairly significant work, but it's not necessarily the best option. Our house is complicated. It was a very small staff cottage that has been extended multiple times in a rather quirky way. It's much bigger downstairs that upstairs. If we did anything, we'd make more first floor space in part of the roof, but it would involving lifting the roof and changing the roofline considerably - it's not a cheap way to make space. We're also in a conservation area (the bungalow isn't).

But yes, I do want to talk to another architect soon - I don't think that one was particularly inspired.

You sound very experienced!

Irregular - we're only looking at around 150 square meter; we've got planning permission - but finding it hard to get a price from the builders that we can afford - we'd been hoping to build a very low energy house, but will probably have to make compromises there. The process of designing the house has been very enjoyable - but now we have our dream house on paper and might not actually be able to build it... decision time coming up soon and we really don't know which way to jump.

and you're right - I won't be envying your mortgage

I've sent you a PM Irregular - collect it from the link at the top of the page.